Making a carbonated lemon soda?

[Consul]

I've been playing around with making my own ginger ales, which is as simple as boiling up some ginger in some water, adding sugar, putting in a 2-liter plastic bottle, then pitching in some yeast at the right temperature. I have some lemons to use up, so I've been giving some thought to a carbonated lemon soda. Trouble is, yeast is the only method of carbonation I have, and I'm pretty sure they don't like things to be too acidic, and I have no ready way of measuring pH.

My idea, then, is to bring the juice and water to a boil with sections of lemon zest, carefully grated off to avoid the pith. The idea is that the zest will add a nice lemon flavor without raising the acidity. I thought I'd run this by some of the folk here before giving it a go to make sure I'm not overlooking something obvious. Thanks!

 

[riggler]

Measuring pH:

Find an aquarium store and get a pH test kit for like $8 for marine reef tanks. Should measure between like 5 and 10 or so!

Funny you mention ginger ale. I just had a Goya Jamaican Ginger Beer (non alcoholic). HOLY CRAP it was spicy!!

 

[Consul]

Hrm, a little research says that yeast can survive and metabolize in a pH as low as 4-5. Pure lemon juice is at 2.3, but it gets diluted (yes, concentration matters), so this might not be an issue after all. I'll go ahead and give it a go tomorrow.

Thanks for the tip on pH testing. I actually knew that, but I don't see the point in spending $8 on a kit I'll use once for an experiment.

 

[livingnote]

I know this might be kinda "cheap" but do you have forced carbonation over there?

In Germany there's this soda club machine, it puts CO2 into the water under pressure.

 

[Consul]

It's my intention to get a soda siphon as soon as I have the cash, but in the meantime, it's interesting to see what can be done with unicellular fungi.

 

[livingnote]

Haha that reminds me of like 15 years ago when I had this experiment with lemons and
water and fermentation...it ended up doing the mold thing sadly, and I had no idea how
to keep it from doing that before it went into the fizzy bubbly makes you tipsy state...

 

[sodderboy]

Siphon is the way to go.  I do that even with ginger ales.  The natural fermentation is not controllable, and the yeast makes stuff taste yeast-y which I don't like with fruit.  You just make a something-aide to taste and blast it.
The only things I used yeast for are beer and kvas.

Just try it anyway- a solution of lemon and sugar should be low enough pH.

Mike
Even crappy industrial red punch will ferment in a thermous over a week.  College discovery.

 

[seavote]

Funny you mention ginger ale. I just had a Goya Jamaican Ginger Beer (non alcoholic). HOLY CRAP it was spicy!!

best ginger beer!  check bottle ,they put cayenne pepper in there.
now i have to get some.

 

[Emperor-TK]

Hrm, a little research says that yeast can survive and metabolize in a pH as low as 4-5. Pure lemon juice is at 2.3, but it gets diluted (yes, concentration matters)

Remember that pH is a log scale.  Every pH unit is an order of magnitude difference in H3O+ concentration.  If citric acid were a strong acid (fully dissociated), it would take a dilution of about 100x to get you above pH of 4.  This problem is further complicated by the change in dissociation of the the weak citric acid with dilution and change in pH, tending to buffer the  pH change.  And finally, citric acid is polyprotic with pKa's all in the range of where your dilution would be, so you really have a triple buffer (or at least a double buffer) situation here.  The rule of thumb is that you have a strong buffer where pH is with 1 unit of pKa, and a weak buffer within 2 units.  Acetic acid has pKa1=3.15,  pKa2=4.77,  pKa3=6.40.  End result: It would be a weak tasting lemonade above pH 4.

 

[Consul]

Ah, yes, it's been a while since my chemistry classes. I'll still try a lemon soda, but I'll make it up as a syrup and just use it with some club soda I have handy. Then when I can, I'll get a soda siphon and call it good. I'm looking at this iSi model, which is getting pretty good reviews overall:

http://www.amazon.com/iSi-Soda-Siphon-Quart-Black/dp/B00007JXR6/

There were some complaints about the carbonation being weak, but it was also pointed out that the siphon and the water in it should be chilled in the fridge before charging. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people don't bother with that. (Gas dissolving in cold liquids better than warm ones is one thing I do remember from chemistry class. )

 

[Marcocet]

Yep Yep. The iSi one is alright but I've had that and the Liss one and far prefer the Liss. Easier to clean / replace parts when necessary. 2L bottle was a big step up, even if I have to use two charges each time and wait for the valve to unfreeze between them.

 

[PRR]

Using yeast, don't you also get alcohol?

Neglected lemonade will turn slightly fizzy and sour. A guy named Mike has a business in Hard Lemonade, though I suspect there is more to the product than just re-bottling out-of-date lemonade.

Seems to me you mix sugar or corn sweet in water, let fizz, -then- squeeze your lemons. I don't see what the lemons can add to the fermentation.

 

[Consul]

Mike's Hard Lemonade is just Zima with some lemon and sugar added.

And yes, you do get a little alcohol, but not very much over a 1-day fermentation. You do get plenty of bubbles, though. I make root beer in this way, although I'm out of extract at the moment.

 

[wmtunate]

 

[mac]

I have done this in the past, as I used to brew a lot of my own beer. I never could get a "fresh" lemon sweet taste though - just halfway between a bitter lemon and beer flavour.

If you let it brew for longer it can produce a low alcohol lemon cider which is nice if that is what you were going for.

But for a sweet and fresh lemon flavour (which was the only way my wife would drink it) - I used to blend fresh lemon and lime juice and sugar syrup with some of the longer brew "lemon cider" bottles (which had heaps of fizz).

Mac

 

[dubwarrior]

I love ginger beer.

my favorite one is this

does somebody got a nice reciepe for a good ginger beer?

Regards

rico

 

[0dbfs]

Go with the zest!

I use about 15 or more lemons worth of zest in a bottle of vodka for 90 days to make some killer pine-sol. Add sugar to taste.

Best,
j

 

[sodderboy]

Like, isn't that lemon-sol?

Instead of zest, try blanching peels in boiled water for 5 min like tea, in your recipe.  You won't be swabbing the decks with it.  And no sugar required to even the taste.
The blanching works with any fruits- really brings on the flava.
MIke

 

[sodderboy]

I found another method for carbonation: kefir grains.  I have been making my own kefir lately thanks to a friend who gave me some grains.  As soon as they grow enough I will try the ginger beer recipe here.  This guy is making all sorts of fizzy drinks with two different types of grains.

You should be able to get some grains from a referral at the local health food store, or online.  The grains grow, so people are always looking for recipients.  The kefir is really good for you as well.
Mike

 

[JohnRoberts]

I used to make kefir for several years until my grains got corrupted. I'm not really sure how, perhaps all the beer yeast in my air from home brewing may have decided to try its magic on some milk. Essentially you want it to spoil from the Kefir bacteria before some other opportunistic buggers take over.

I would use low fat milk, the kefir doesn't care since it is only eating the lactose (sugar) not the fat. I would blend in some frozen fruit (strawberries, blueberries, etc) and artificial sweetener to make a tasty yogurt like dessert, but without all the artificial crap you get in store bought yogurt. You can even freeze it in an ice cream maker...

The kefir culture is also supposed to be good for digestion, like active yogurts.

I need to buy some new grains, but the only sources i see on the internet last time I looked are some gypsy types that don't inspire confidence. And they try to charge $20 for what cost them pennies to make.
-----
Why make carbonated lemonade... just put a slice of lemon in some weisebier?  

JR

PS: Mike: if I get desperate, I may try to bum some grains from you when you get a surplus..

[edit- I just ordered some for $22 arghhhh, lets see if it arrives alive...  I miss my kefir  /edit]