Manley Ref C Capsule Upgrade

[AuralArts]

I am seeing some really eye catching prices on used Manley Reference Cardioids.
They use a Chinese Felio 67 style capsule.

My question is, would a capsule like the BeesNeez k67 be an upgrade?
Or is there some type of synergy that the Felio capsule has that the BeesNeez wouldn't capitalize on?

Thank you very much for taking the time to read & respond!

 

[kingkorg]

I have no idea how BeesNees k67 sounds or performs. However I have experimented with that body and different capsules including Feilo one.

There is nothing inherently wrong with that Feilo capsule besides that it's not really either accurate Neumann's k67 design, nor Sony c800 type. It does it's own thing. The only thing that puzzles me is why they used that class of capsule in so expensive mic. However it does seem to work well for many people so who cares... it does suck though that some 100$ mics come really close to it's sound because of this.

I have noticed some Ref C variants with brass ring capsules, i have no idea what those are.

I would just experiment with different capsules and find out what i like best. However that might be expensive sport. I doubt though anyone can tell you exactly what you might get when you swap capsules, not even Ben who makes it.

 

[AuralArts]

I have no idea how BeesNees k67 sounds or performs. However I have experimented with that body and different capsules including Feilo one.

There is nothing inherently wrong with that Feilo capsule besides that it's not really either accurate Neumann's k67 design, nor Sony c800 type. It does it's own thing. The only thing that puzzles me is why they used that class of capsule in so expensive mic. However it does seem to work well for many people so who cares... it does suck though that some 100$ mics come really close to it's sound because of this.

I have noticed some Ref C variants with brass ring capsules, i have no idea what those are.

I would just experiment with different capsules and find out what i like best. However that might be expensive sport. I doubt though anyone can tell you exactly what you might get when you swap capsules, not even Ben who makes it.

Thank you kingkorg.. this is immensely insightful!
I think id be willing to get a capsule and play around with it just to see if I like it vs the original more

I've seen a ton of people recommending a tube swap on gearspace.. some say Mullard, but most say Telefunken.
Has anyone here recently got a tube from BOWIE, aka Christian Whitmore?

 

[Nyquist]

I buy all my NOS tubes from Christian. He's been good to deal with and has delivered every time.

 

[kingkorg]

I'm not sure what that circuit is, but i've heard it's optimized for 12ax7. I wouldn't just change the type of the tube before checking how new one would affect other stuff. Operating points, bias, impedance.... This is not really a guitar amp situation. If you go for another 12ax7 make sure it's microphone grade. Which would mean extremely low noise. As far as i know no one sells 12ax7 that fulfill this requirement, if they do i would suspect they are being dishonest. Im not even sure how Manley does it, but they have resources so i guess they know what a mic tube is.

But why that mic if you want to change so much, and without even trying it out for yourself? Change the tube and capsule, it has nothing in common with ref c anymore.

 

[AuralArts]

I buy all my NOS tubes from Christian. He's been good to deal with and has delivered every time.

when's the last time you bought from him? Is he still in business?

 

[AuralArts]

I'm not sure what that circuit is, but i've heard it's optimized for 12ax7. I wouldn't just change the type of the tube before checking how new one would affect other stuff. Operating points, bias, impedance.... This is not really a guitar amp situation. If you go for another 12ax7 make sure it's microphone grade. Which would mean extremely low noise. As far as i know no one sells 12ax7 that fulfill this requirement, if they do i would suspect they are being dishonest. Im not even sure how Manley does it, but they have resources so i guess they know what a mic tube is.

But why that mic if you want to change so much, and without even trying it out for yourself? Change the tube and capsule, it has nothing in common with ref c anymore.

I would get a Telefunken 12ax7
Mullard is another option people like. BOWIE recommends it for the Manley Ref C.

Yes I know many people have this perspective on changing a mic around..
For me it novelty.. like playing video games or legos.
I make music and am fascinated with every single aspect.. music theory to pro audio, and all the little details they can entail.

So if I prefer the stock sound, I would keep it.
If I prefer the custom sound, then I would keep that.

At the end of the day I learn more about what I like and the components that influence that,
and I get the enjoyment out of it like an art project.

 

[rock soderstrom]

I would get a Telefunken 12ax7
Mullard is another option people like.

I would choose a different type of tube, there are better tubes for this application. Even in the heyday of tube technology, when numerous and high quality 12AX7/ECC83 were available, the designers of microphones (e.g. Neumann, AKG, Schoeps, Sony) chose other types. There are solid reasons for this.

In my opinion, the 12AX7 in microphones came up only when the cheap Chinese large-diaphragm microphones appeared in the mid-nineties.

 

[AuralArts]

I would choose a different type of tube, there are better tubes for this application. Even in the heyday of tube technology, when numerous and high quality 12AX7/ECC83 were available, the designers of microphones (e.g. Neumann, AKG, Schoeps, Sony) chose other types. There are solid reasons for this.

In my opinion, the 12AX7 in microphones came up only when the cheap Chinese large-diaphragm microphones appeared in the mid-nineties.

What type of tube & can you please explain why?
Im sincerely curious.. is it lower noise, more harmonics, more depth?

tons of people of gearspace are raving about tele 12ax7s from bowie in their Ref C.. probably around 10 people I've seen so far

 

[rock soderstrom]

Check the old schematics of the renowned microphone manufacturers.

If you want to stay with triodes, the 6072a / 12AY7 is certainly a very good choice. Selected 12AT7/ECC81 are also good. Then there are very good miniature tubes, also from Russia.

Pentodes, connected as triodes like EF86, EF800 etc. are also very good. Price-wise, most are also much better than any super duper "NOS" 12AX7. Rather buy several tubes and select for noise and stability (+sound, if you can hear a difference). Tubes in microphones has always meant strict selection.

I personally don't like the sound of the 12AX7 outside of guitar amps. You have to use NFB strongly for audio purposes, it always sounds a bit strained to my ears. There are better, but best form your own opinion by testing. Do not listen to the internet homies so much, including me.