Microphone rant

[Gus]

People

I have done some testing of different circuits in and mods of the china tube microphones like the nady 1050,1150,apex 460 etc. I have also worked on a lot of solid state stuff

Now if you go to places like gearsluts you will see

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?t=33638&page=3

What I read at the sites like that makes me chuckle because some of the china tube problems are not even being addressed by the mods done by the "gurus" You don't need a new capsule unless you want a nice one like a real K47 or real ck12 type IMO.

I think some of the people who post at different web sites have not heard a good microphone.

FWIW I am not a "guru" I have just started playing with microphones over the last three or so years and I only post about things I have tested or heard. I still have lots more to learn. FWIW I think I found a microphone design (capsule, circuit, grill, body) that allows the 32mm china capsule to sound OK, even soundguy said it sounds OK. If one has followed my posts I have posted I am not a fan of the 32mm china so don't believe my posts without testing things yourself. I think one needs to know something about physics and chemistry to start to "understand" a tube microphone circuit.

Another microphone mod that I look at on the web is the change the tube company 6dj8 tube number in the rode k2,NTK microphones. I have a K2 and I have tried a few different 6dj8 type tubes in it not much change with that type tube to my ears. A Jan 6922 might have been the best I tried with the stock circuit. I guess they did not see the group diy site.

I have a least four different changes to the tube china circuits(nady, apex). Now here is the problem. I would like to share some of them but I think I will be giving away to much information to people who have not done the work I have done. It might be used for a new RTF microphone or someone might offer a new improved mod on the web.

I want to post in the VF14 replacement tube thread but I don't think I should.

Anyone noticed how a few of the early microphone people here have stopped or reduced the amount of posts? I am still suprised that CJ still shares info with transformers.

Here is a question how much do the cheap people here and at other sites pay for a tube mod to a tube china microphone like at the gearsluts site?

 

[kruz]

Well Gus,
I'm one of those unskilled people..
If you rant, i could even rant back..
Here we are the GDIY, that means that we like to share, that we like to help other newbies that want to understand how thing works.
There wouldn't be this forum without this free sharing attitude, and you know what i'm talking about.
If you are scared that your 460 mods will end up as kits on ebay, well.. you should maybe sell the mod kits by yourself.. that will pay back your years of mic learnings, that's indeed legit! and that will still be sharing your ideas..
Or you could choose to keep them all for yourself.. so that noone will benefit from your work.. is this good? not really..
The whole world benefits from someone else experience, you do too, if not.. there wouldn't be innovations and evolution!!
rant end.

 

[rodabod]

Gus, you must get a bit irritated when you see a lot of rubbish talked about (cheap) mics on the net.

Even when I read stuff people have written on the net, I sometimes think to myself, "What are you talking about?". It is common to see people thinking that they want to improve something, and often the first thing they think to do is replace a valve for a more expensive (not necessarily better) one. Quite often they will say that "Wow.... The top-end is much more open and smooth.." or even "Amazing... The ear piercing top-end peak has disappeared..." Really?



[quote author="Gus"]
I think some of the people who post at different web sites have not heard a good microphone. [/quote]

I think a lot of people have got used to hearing Chinese microphones for comparison.

I have a least four different changes to the tube china circuits(nady, apex). Now here is the problem. I would like to share some of them but I think I will be giving away to much information to people who have not done the work I have done. It might be used for a new RTF microphone or someone might offer a new improved mod on the web.

I have to agree with you there. That T*elefunken mod to the N*ady mic was based on mods from the web IIRC.

I want to post in the VF14 replacement tube thread but I don't think I should.

Lol :razz:

I am still suprised that CJ still shares info with transformers.

Yeah. CJ is a legend for doing all that work on transformers. I suppose there are two ways to look at it. CJ is helping people to understand the aspects of what makes good audio transformers whilst also helping people to learn analysis techniques too - plotting specs, reading specs, using 'scopes. This is great, but as you point out, some people might want to withhold information or at least only share it with a few people who can respect it.

Here is a question how much do the cheap people here and at other sites pay for a tube mod to a tube china microphone like at the gearsluts site?

Who knows? I wouldn't ever bother myself. I considered buying one when they came out, but realised that the only thing I liked about them was the casing and the power supply. I think people would probably be better off buying something like an AT 4033 or AT 4040 instead. No need to mod!

Did you ever get anywhere with that solid-state mic circuit / PCB? I'm looking at solid-state circuits for a German capsule I have (I've decided to only make one valve mic at a time rather than two). I wonder if people would benefit from having the eq section (for K67) for the Chinese copy or if it is unnecessary.

 

[rodabod]

[quote author="kruz"]
If you are scared that your 460 mods will end up as kits on ebay, well.. you should maybe sell the mod kits by yourself.. that will pay back your years of mic learnings...[/quote]

Good business idea.

If I were you, Gus, I would do this.

 

[TedF]

Go ahead Gus, market your mods; but the audio business is strangely resistant to new ideas, so don't give up the day job! :?

 

[sismofyt]

don't market your mods, market a new mic

yeah, the audio biz uses enormous amount of money putting life into dead shit because the new shit they invent are worse than the old shit it replaced

 

[Gus]

kruz

My last line in the top post is asking the price of the mods to give me an idea to work on a business model to see if it might pay to offer mods taking into account issues that one WILL have when dealing with the public.

At group diy there is ntk mod from me and bluebird.

If you read my microphone posts there is some interesting microphone stuff in there try to find some of it in a book.

I will not do a WOB. I have thought of deleting some stuff but I have not.


The mods are simple and nothing new, a lot know about cap upgrades but other stuff seems to be overlooked by some.

 

[kruz]

[quote author="Gus"]If you read my microphone posts there is some interesting microphone stuff in there try to find some of it in a book.[/quote]
Indeed, we all know that you made us learn of lot of stuff about mic..
We are all thankful about that.. i'm sure.

 

[sismofyt]

WOB?

 

[kruz]

WOB was a member here.. his knoledge was really appreciated around here too..
Once he decided to leave and clear all his posts..
a terrible waste of free knoledge if you ask me

 

[sismofyt]

ohh, Winston! i was around back then as well, he seemed nice, bought some stuff from him, chatted a bit offline. did he delete his posts? why, that's odd?

back to the mic. i've noticed that people are willing to pay a hundred dollars for some TFK/Mullard/hype tube for their cheapass toob mics. so i'm posistive that people will to pay for the 'it's custom, so it's special - which makes me special and cool too' factor. sheep. NOT saying that there's anything bad about your mod, it's just that lame mentality, it's all over the bizm and you can profit greatly me thinks, however:

you're probably also gonna have to do a LOT of emailing back and forth. newbies, microphones and DIY mods together is a potential major fuck up

and honestly, i think you could make a new mic that would just blow all that cheap shit clean off the surface off the Earth

i'd surely buy one

 

[rodabod]

[quote author="sismofyt"]don't market your mods, market a new mic
[/quote]

A new mic would be great, but sadly people buy stuff according to marketing hype. That would explain partly why so many people have crap sounding mics.

I think a mod kit marketed on Ebay would be good. I would sell it according to demand / supply and try to command the highest price possible. I would also try to keep list of actual parts confidential so as to put off potential copy-cats.

You could make a lot of money doing this.

 

[sismofyt]

just buy some cool old german sounding name that don't sound too nazi

 

[pstamler]

I suspect brother Winston worked for EMI or some other large British recording concern or console manufacturer, and he believed he was putting his job at risk by his postings here. So he left, and pulled his postings, to protect his livelihood; can't say I blame him, though I miss him.

Peace,
Paul

 

[pmroz]

.
Gus, haven't tried a mod yet... your posts (and Zebra, Marik, Dale, etc) convinced me to go another route.

That thread mentioned the quality varies on China mics. If you offered mod service, the results would probably vary, and your customers might be happier or less happy depending on the mic they sent you in the first place. You can only improve what you are given, and if the original had a weak capsule, that might reflect badly on you in the end.

A friend has an ADK A-51TC (he likes) that sounded pretty good A/Bed with Rode Classic, KSM32, and a (rented) U87. Blind listening. ADK had a little more high end 'grit', not much though. We liked each on different things. We did not put any of the tracks in a mix though.
Another friend has the same ADK mic (he doesn't like). Put the 2 next to each other and the 2nd was awfully gritty. Big difference. None of us liked it. What did the guy in that thread say?.... like a metal pipe was attached to the ride and the other end into my ear or something.

So if you mod an inferior mic/capsule relative to others of same model, what do you tell the customer after they pay you and the mic is still just okay? Not your fault, just what you had to work with.
Modded China tube mic= $200 + $400? =$600 plus shipping back and forth, etc. AT4060 = $800
The mod guy in the thread was getting $400? So you can make money, but your reputation will also be based on your clientele... part of the fun of business (and what keeps you going) is interacting with knowledgable clients (as opposed to....). Also you might hate to send those not-so-good modded mics out with your name attached.

Advantage of marketing your own mic is you can QC the capsules. Or perhaps a good idea if you go the mod service route is have a stock of capsules you've QCed yourself.

Good idea Roddy, sell a kit a la Royer. But probably many 'support' hours added in the equation.

How can anyone mind if you don't post something? I disagree with Cruz... thankful (and amazed) at all the free help offered, but there is no 'obligation' to share. We can experiment and design for ourselves, and maybe give back a little knowledge. It's such a big investment of your time, even just the typing/posting part. If you offer something for free, I'll take it. If you hold stuff back, why would I get mad that you haven't given more?
BTW don't get mad at WOB, think he was required to delete everything by his former employer/binding contract agreements, etc. (oops, what Pstamler said). Good news is he offered his insights for a short time anyway, and we were blessed.

Thanks again and good luck, Paul

 

[kruz]

Paul,
I think you missed my point..
I'm not asking ANYONE to share if they do not want to.. and i'm ABSOLUTELY for any kind of post i read up here, yes.. even Jaakko useless posts (just joking, jaakko
I was just evoking our old GDIY spirit.. and it was also a rant.. something maybe not too pondered but surely from my heart.
I don't think we disagree.
There is no simple solution to Gus's doubts.. and i can easily understand him.
My rant was just something like "wake up and walk" style.. you know..
It's just that sometimes i do not really like that sort of elitecomments.. i'm not referring just to Gus (yes he did some imho lately and i don't like them, cause we are here to learn)
Please Gus, don't feel this like a personal attack.. it is not.. it's something else.. it's that i feel your same doubts and i see how the group is mutating lately..
Again.. believe me.. i'm truely thankfull to anyone here that have at least made one single usefull comment.. i'm instead not of much help and i try to learn as much as i can to be able to give back something to the community sooner or later..
Yes, i still believe in our community.. some may have lost this faith.. at least that's how it seems.
Reading back what i wrote maybe i haven't exactly expressed how i feel about this.. well.. english is not my 1st lingo.. i try to do my best.

 

[Flatpicker]

[quote author="sismofyt"]...and honestly, i think you could make a new mic that would just blow all that cheap shit clean off the surface off the Earth...[/quote]I agree!

I?ll also point out that being a ?guru? is not necessarily required for such an undertaking (although to most of us, you are somewhat of a guru). However, having a passion for it is a major requirement, and you certainly have plenty of that!

 

[Scodiddly]

With the Alice mic I was surprised at how many people wanted kits. That's despite the fact that I'd posted pretty much everything, even a Mouser parts list and a link to the capsule source. Some folks just don't like venturing out on their own, I guess.

 

[Emperor-TK]

Bunch of folks on other message boards are lamenting the demise of the DIY Mojave kit. A $300 mic that sounds like a $1000 has now become a $1000 mic that sounds like a $1000 one. Gus, it's just a matter of marketing, the demand is there. Everyone here knows that you you have the goods to deliver, but you need to extend that reputation out to the rest of the world. Scoddidly had a nice start with the good Tape-op review. You are going to need a good foot-in-the door. Maybe just an ad in the back of Tape-Op is a good way to start, then let the product speak for itself. Oh yeah, and like TedF said... :grin:

BTW, Gus's full name is quite Germanic sounding... I'd use that too. Answer the phones "Hallo...Gustav hier..." :grin:

Of course there is always the other approach, charge $600 to change a capacitor ad a resistor and have everyone think you are a god.... :razz:

 

[clintrubber]

[quote author="Emperor-TK"]Of course there is always the other approach, charge $600 to change a capacitor ad a resistor and have everyone think you are a god.... :razz:[/quote]
That sounds not unlike those overpriced magic resistor swaps for TS-808/TS-9... :evil: