Modern music tech

[Whoops]

My recollection (based on some whisperings and heresay) is the big reason the X32 did so well is because it was already in the pipeline at Midas.

That's not correct, it was not developed at Midas.
The X32 was developed by Behringer only, I talk regularly with one of the people involved in it's development.
When Uli bought Midas, they decided to put the Midas name on an already Behringer product and offer a product exactly the same but with improved components and use the Midas name for marketing.
The idea was that budget users would buy the Behringer X32 and PA and Rental companies would by the Midas M32.

It was a great mixer explicitly because it was a Midas spec'd and designed console first and foremost.

Like I said above, it's not a Midas product neither Midas spec'd

That said- while it's certainly well entrenched, there are a dozen better sounding, more ergonomic (no touchscreen??? commahhhhn), and better built desks out there that occupy a similar price point,

No there aren't,
there's no console that has the same amount of features and flexibility of the X32 in the same price point.
It's just an amazing package for the price.
And to had to that fact the console sounds really good, its was actually a miracle and that's the reason it took the market by storm

Most recently got to play a bit with a Yamaha Rivage PM10 system... So i've had my hands on most of what's out there- from the garbage right on up!

Me also, and also all my colleagues that like me adquired and X32.
We all used all the consoles that exist. From crappy Presonus to Heritage D and SSL

 

[amplexus]

That's not correct, it was not developed at Midas.
The X32 was developed by Behringer only, I talk regularly with one of the people involved in it's development.
When Uli bought Midas, they decided to put the Midas name on an already Behringer product and offer a product exactly the same but with improved components and use the Midas name for marketing.
The idea was that budget users would buy the Behringer X32 and PA and Rental companies would by the Midas M32.



Like I said above, it's not a Midas product neither Midas spec'd

Perhaps my sources were incorrect.

No there aren't,
there's no console that has the same amount of features and flexibility of the X32 in the same price point.
It's just an amazing package for the price.
And to had to that fact the console sounds really good, its was actually a miracle and that's the reason it took the market by storm

You're certainly welcome to that opinion. It's a great desk, and it's earned the reputation its gotten- but it's dated, and it lacks even basic features like a touchscreen. New offerings from Yamaha, Allen & Heath, and Soundcraft in the same class have more processing, better FX, more routing features, smaller footprint, touchscreens, LARGER screens, higher sample rates for ADDA and processing... Hell the Yamaha TF has "discrete" preamps and one of the Soundcraft models has lighting control and DMX outputs. Even the M32 has better ergonomics... The X32 is a great desk but it's objectively not the "best" small format digital console even if it's a great all-rounder that just about everyone knows how to use.

It's become the SM58 or NS-10 of consoles. Solid, everyone's used them, you know exactly what you're going to get and you can make it sound killer if you know what you're doing.

Me also, and also all my colleagues that like my adquired and X32.
We all used all the consoles that exist. From crappy Presonus to Heritage D and SSL

Used all the consoles that exist? Well you've got me there, I can't make that claim.

 

[Chrisfromthepast]

I second that.
M32 is just x32 with upgraded components.
The aes50 transport makes it possible to use the preamps developed for the old midas PRO series on the m32 or x32 control surface when clocked at 48k.
The difference between the Pro preamps and the midas/behringer dl range is drastic. Especially at the point of clipping. If you remember the heritage 3k sound and loved it, the blackface preamps will not get you there.
IMHO the great strength of the x32/m32 range is the API for control being very robust and the software has been stable over time.
This is not a diss, but explains the longevity of the product range.
I use the Heritage 96D whenever possible, and Im really falling in love.
X32 was not a complete product before update version 4, and this new product is much more complete in the first year.

 

[Tubetec]

Sincerest thanks to all for their contribution on this subject ,
I havent done a live show with a band in probably 10 years ,
I'll probably keep an old style analog signal path alongside me despite all the bells and whistles the new gear has , no point in trying to fight with the incomming tide as they say .

 

[Whoops]

It's a great desk, and it's earned the reputation its gotten- but it's dated, and it lacks even basic features like a touchscreen.

As for being dated, well the console was released in 2012, so that was 11 years ago.
They already released the follow up, it's the "Wing" and it has a lot of great updates on the X32,
but you know what people still love the X32 and even after 11 years of being released it's still the the Live Console that sells the most in the World.
Actually the price of the X32 didn't even go down, it went up. I bought my X32 new in 2017 and it was cheaper than what it's being sold nowadays.
So I don't see anyone complaining that it's outdated, although I feel the "Wing" went some steps further.

As for the touchscreen I really don't agree, the X32/M32 is so easy to work with and the interface is so well though that I never ever felt the need for any touchscreen.
The Midas Pro range were the best Midas consoles, their top of the range, everyone recognizes they're great and none of them has ever had a touchscreen.

For the X32/M32 I have a touchscreen in a wonderful iPAD app, and there's even the great unofficial app called "Mixing Station" that it's also great.
And I can't get tired of saying this, the X32/M32 Mix app for iPAD is the the best remote control app ever released from any manufacturer.
Only App that comes close is the Yamaha ones, they're pretty good also, but not as good as the X32 Mix app.

New offerings from Yamaha, Allen & Heath, and Soundcraft in the same class have more processing, better FX, more routing features, smaller footprint, touchscreens, LARGER screens, higher sample rates for ADDA and processing...

There's no offer from Yamaha, Allen & Heath, and Soundcraft in the same price range as the X32 that has better features than the X32. All the consoles from those brands in the same price range of the X32 are worse.
I will not even talk about higher priced consoles from Allen & Heath because I still have yet to see any good console from Allen & Heath, all of them were always mediocre both analog and digital.
And the only good digital consoles from Soundcraft were the Vi series, which start at 10 times more than the X32.

Hell the Yamaha TF has "discrete" preamps

The TF console is so poor that you can't even add a delay in the outputs.
I know people that bought it and returned it, and they are much happier with their X32, I understand why.

Used all the consoles that exist? Well you've got me there, I can't make that claim.

Well I meant present day professional Live Sound Consoles, was talking about the higher range of live Consoles.
I totally understand it could be interpreted wrongly and that I was not clear enough, so please let me explain:
All Digico SD, All Souncraft Vi series, All Midas Pro Series, Midas Heritage D, Yamaha CL series, Yamaha Rivage PM10, SSL L350

I'm sure that is some lower end crappy digital live console that I never used, but I not remembering any from the top of my head. I used pretty good stuff but also had gigs that had to use really bad stuff. Buying the X32 allowed me to never have to use the really bad stuff again, if locally they have a crappy console and they don't wanna change it I just put my X32 in the car.

 

[Tubetec]

'If the mountain will not come to Muhammad'?

 

[Rusan]

The Behringer X32 is an outstanding console, it really blew up the market, it has a great set of features and some of them not even expensive and top of the range consoles have.
It's the best Behringer product ever released

I think the buyout of Midas is paying off here.

It was a great mixer explicitly because it was a Midas spec'd and designed console first and foremost.

I'd agree; it's definitely the best thing Behringer's ever built, even if it was really Midas that did it for them. I've been around several other Behringer products lately, and their overall level of performance has improved significantly from what Behringer was 10 or 15 years ago. I certainly wouldn't call it pro-grade or even mid-grade, but it delivers a fair value/performance for the price point.

As I noted, I've been using the X32 for a couple of years now, and just yesterday spent about 4 hours behind it. As Whoops noted, it has an unbelievable number of features and options, and sounds very decent (though definitely not analog). Nothing has broken yet, although we had to return the first one we bought because one of the digital scribble strips didn't work; brand new, right out of the box.

It's a good console, and it'll do anything you can think of and a whole lot more. I'm just not a fan of its workflow, but maybe I was a bit harsh in my criticism of it. Truth is, I don't like the workflow of any digital board. My first two decades of running live sound consisted of analog consoles and outboard gear, and it's hard for me to change, especially when it means you can't see everything that's going on and must access it through layers and menus. I'm a crusty old curmudgeon who still loves his dedicated, individual controls and racks of EQs and compressors, even if it does require 50 times as much space and money. Old habits die hard, they say....

 

[Rusan]

I still have yet to see any good console from Allen & Heath, all of them were always mediocre both analog and digital.
And the only good consoles from Soundcraft were the Vi series, which start at 10 times more than the X32.

All the older analog Allen & Heath and Soundcraft consoles I have experience with sounded good to excellent.

 

[BIASKING]

That said- while it's certainly well entrenched, there are a dozen better sounding, more ergonomic (no touchscreen??? commahhhhn), and better built desks out there that occupy a similar price point, and while it may be standard fare in live sound now it would be last on my list of desks to buy for my personal rig for a great many reasons.

I've never found the sound quality to be an issue. I can't imagine a dozen, or even a couple, of $4K consoles that "sound better".

DiGiCo touch screen, no thanks. Avid ergonomics, same.
For me the X and M controls respond like the Midas analog counterparts, except I can pick them up and they magically re-load all the settings (except the spectragram! ARRRRGH) at the next venue. ;-)

Not trying to argue any points - we all have our faves for many unique reasons.

Just giving an honest opinion gathered from many live shows mixed on these little inexpensive workhorses and trying to offer a different perspective from the "Behringer for "pro" ? really ?" crowd.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you can't mix a good sounding pro level show on an X or an M maybe it's not the equipment.
Glad to hear all the other opinions about them. I sometimes get funny looks when they are spec'd.

 

[amplexus]

As for the touchscreen I really don't agree, the X32/M32 is so easy to work with and the interface is so well though that I never ever felt the need for any touchscreen.
The Midas Pro range were the best Midas consoles, their top of the range, everyone recognizes they're great and none of them has ever had a touchscreen.

That may be regional perhaps. Up here I've never seen a Midas Pro desk on a tour loadout- it's mostly Digico/Yamaha/Avid dominating the hire market around here, with the odd A&H DLive. And all of those have large, multitouch touchscreens as default. While i don't do any touring myself anymore, I do build and maintain some rigs and looms for several national touring artists and I've spent more than a bit of time at the production houses during tour prep.

For the X32/M32 I have a touchscreen in a wonderful iPAD app, and there's even the great unofficial app called "Mixing Station" that it's also great.
And I can't get tired of saying this, the X32/M32 Mix app for iPAD is the the best remote control app ever released from any manufacturer.
Only App that comes close is the Yamaha ones, they're pretty good also, but not as good as the X32 Mix app.

This is definitely a point we'll not agree on- the Yamaha app and Monitor Mix apps are killer and I find them far superior in integration. Effectively with an ipad I can turn a Yamaha TF into a dual independent touchscreen setup with say, eq on the ipad and comp on the main screen and have it all follow channel selection and make adjustments to both simultaneously. Even if i never wander from behind the desk I always have the ipad running that way. It's super tactile and i can display any screen on the ipad that can be displayed on the internal screen. That feature alone is probably my favourite part of the workflow.

The TF console is so poor that you can't even add a delay in the outputs.
I know people that bought it and returned it, and they are much happier with their X32, I understand why.

This is incorrect and has been for some time.

I bought a TF3 when they first released for my own modest live rig at the time. I may actually have had the first one that came into Canada. They have been able to do output/matrix delays since like, the second firmware update. I used to run delay towers and zone delays with it regularly at one recurring show I did. They get a lot of hate and it's mostly based on old information like this or people who've never spent much time with the desk.

Personally I would never trade my TF for an M/X32. The workflow is so much faster for me and it's an excellent sounding desk- aside from the fact that you couldn't pay me enough to own anything from Uli's Tribe regardless... My only real complaint is the comps are kinda bland. Even at that it's likely not the desk I'd buy today if I were looking, but I do so little live work anymore, it only really needs to get me through the odd livestream mix and it's excellent for me for that so I've got no need to move to anything else till it breaks beyond practical repair. Then i'll probably try and pickup a used QL for a good price.

 

[Rusan]

Sincerest thanks to all for their contribution on this subject ,
I havent done a live show with a band in probably 10 years ,
I'll probably keep an old style analog signal path alongside me despite all the bells and whistles the new gear has , no point in trying to fight with the incoming tide as they say

Tubetec, if you can indeed sit in on a few gigs with the X32 and get a feel for it, go for it. It might surprise you, and even if it's not your favorite cup of tea, you'll at least get to tinker with something new. We all have our likes and dislikes, and our preferences in live sound mixing consoles are just like tubes versus solid state, Ford versus Chevy, Coke versus Pepsi or puffy Cheetos versus crunchy Cheetos; opinions are strong to the point that any serious conversation involving them can get rather, ahem, excited. As I stated, my only two qualms with the X32 are indigenous to all digital desks: namely, they don't operate or sound the same as analog desks. Even at that, I've used some analog consoles over the years that sounded worse than the X32, with a few here and there being much worse. It's just that the good ones sound like, well, the way top-shelf analog is supposed to sound, and once you've experienced it you're ruined for life.

While I'm not enthralled with the X32's workflow and am analog-branded to the bone, there are some things about it that I very much like (Whoops covered most of them already):

• The channel strip compressor has practically every feature ever put on a compressor and is quite transparent sounding, ditto for the fully parametric channel EQ.
• It has 16 mix buses, 6 matrixes, 8 DCAs, 1 mono/center mix bus and 1 stereo master bus, and all buses have that same parametric EQ, compressor and gate/expander.
• Every parametric EQ in the board has a RTA/spectrum analyzer in its GUI.
• The flexibility of internal and external routing is unbelievable.
• There's an effects rack with 8 slots, and a huge number of decent quality effects (including some more colorful compressors and EQs) that can be placed on internally routed inserts to literally anywhere/anything. There's even a pretty good de-esser, and my only gripe is that there's no de-popper or multiband compressor to deal with plosives.
• Some of the rack FX are dual-mono with independent controls, giving you two assignable channels in one virtual rack slot.
• There's a pink noise generator that can be routed to any output.
• The remote control app is well thought out, and allows access to any control or feature you'd need during a show. I'll occasionally grab the iPad and walk around to make sure the two outer FOH mains (which are different from the inner FOH mains) I'm normally off-axis from are still sounding right.
• Delays on outputs, multiple power-shaded outputs controlled by a single fader, low-passed output(s) for subs, or any other special sound reinforcement requirement you can think of can easily be set up in the board.

My relationship with the X32 is like a woman that's sweet, warm and friendly, has a 140 IQ, is a professional chef, speaks 5 languages like a native speaker and sings opera and plays 8 instruments on a professional level, but has more facial hair than I do. She's amazing, but I just can't get past "this chick has a moustache..."

Yeah, I know, sigh...

 

[Whoops]

That may be regional perhaps. Up here I've never seen a Midas Pro desk on a tour loadout- it's mostly Digico/Yamaha/Avid dominating the hire market around here

Yes, it's probably regional, as Midas and Soundcraft are European and Avid is American.

But we get loads of Digico around here, also Yamaha (less than Digico) and a few Avid.
There was more Avid consoles before, around 12 years ago, but that seemed to fade.
A lot of Soundcraft Vi also, they're everywhere like DigiCo.

As for Midas Pro, around 13 years ago there was just 1 in the country, it was the Pro 6 model.
After the Midas takeover from Behringer, they reduced a lot the price on the Midas Pro" range desks,
they are amazing consoles, amazing sound, so everyone started to buy them.
Now a lot of touring acts use the Pro2 or the Pro1.
The huge major acts before were using DigiCo consoles before, and nowadays they use SSL.
Medium and smaller acts tour with the X32 or Wing.

When I tour in Europe I get a variety of all these consoles.
In Japan I always get an Yamaha.
In Brazil normally Digico or Yamaha.

But at least in Portugal since 5 years ago I decided to just specify in my Riders the X32/M32 only, because I wanted to maintain a consistent end result by always improving on the same session of that band, instead of having to keep doing new sessions all the time for every different console and not having all the features I have in the X32 Mix iPAD control app.
So in Portugal I've been having myself more and more the X32/M32 and I'm very happy as it was what I'm asking for.

, with the odd A&H DLive. And all of those have large, multitouch touchscreens as default. While i don't do any touring myself anymore, I do build and maintain some rigs and looms for several national touring artists and I've spent more than a bit of time at the production houses during tour prep.


This is definitely a point we'll not agree on- the Yamaha app and Monitor Mix apps are killer and I find them far superior in integration.

Each to it's own.
I agree Yamaha remote control apps are pretty good, and besides Behringer are the only ones doing it properly, all the other app from the other brands are quite bad.
For the odd gigs where the console is in a really bad spot for listening or mixing I will then prefer to mix on the iPAD and seat in a good spot, so the X32/M32 Mix remote control app allows me to do everything I could do on the console itself, like do the "TAP tempo" for the delay and save the session from the iPAD.

This is incorrect and has been for some time.

They have been able to do output/matrix delays since like, the second firmware update. I used to run delay towers and zone delays with it regularly at one recurring show I did. They get a lot of hate and it's mostly based on old information like this or people who've never spent much time with the desk.

Thank you so much for letting me (and us) know,
I have no intention of providing wrong info and I want to constantly learn, so thanks for correcting me.

So I've used the TF in the first Firmare version, I used 2 times, didn't like it and after that I bought the X32 and started to ask the X32/M32 in my riders so I haven't use a TF since, and I will not use again in Portugal, maybe just the tours when we go to foreign countries as I don't have my console in those situations.

Personally I would never trade my TF for an M/X32.

And I would never ever trade my X32 console for any console under 6000€ (besides the M32)

and it's an excellent sounding desk

I never liked the sound of any Yamaha digital console, besides the PM5D. The Rivage might be good but I just used it one time, and the band was great, the musicians had great sound, the mics and PA was great, so of course the overall sound of the gig was pretty good.
I also don't like the sound of Rio and Tio stageboxes.

My X32 connected to Midas Pro DL153 stageboxes is a killer setup, I have the same Mic Preamps and A/D D/A converters as the Midas Pro consoles and overall it's an excellent sound. Since the start of my career, around 20 years ago, I was never as happy with the sound of Live gear as I'm today.

 

[Tubetec]

Very glad now I started this thread ,
theres nothing like hearing it from the horses mouth so to speak , from real world experience ,

I see the guys with the ipads nowadays , like you said Rusan if the mixing position isnt optimum its easy to nip out to a better spot and make your adjustments , I remember in the old days in that situation youd have to go out take a listen , then return to the mixer then make the adjustment , then go out and verify the sound again , now you can check the sound anywhere in the venue and make your adjustments on the fly .

I think I might have to enquire about getting in the M32R after all , the Pre Sonus is of course a newer desk , and seems to perhaps have an edge feature wise in some respects over the older Behringer/Midas , 12 years is a little long in the tooth by the modern yardstick measure , never the less it means these things have eaten up road miles and kept on going . Reminds me a bit of the Volkswagen Transporter , the basic design of which has barely been touched since the the late 80's , just as in audio good design stands the test of time .

I think its almost certain I'll run a smaller analog mixer setup alongside , Im going to keep an eye out for an SSL SiX ,one of which I narrowly missed recently at around half the RRP , I also see the SSL 2 interface going quite cheaply on the second hand market now ,around 100 euros , 50 euros per channel for an SSL mic/line/instrument input is good value by anyones standards , the fact that you get an audio interface as well as master and monitor outputs make it a no brainer for the money .
I have an Amek BC3 I picked up at an auction around 15-20 years ago , I'll probably incorporate a few of the Neve designed mic/line modules and maybe the group section from that ,

So a nice mix of Neve/Amek and SSL , a system where you can A-B switch from analog to digital to properly evaluate whats going on , or find out if the digital processing is sucking the life out of your low level detail

 

[Chrisfromthepast]

I want to point out a few drawbacks the x32 landscape presents.
It is the only digital desk that has dropped analog output while displaying output on the VU for me. It is maddening the first time. The tenth time I know to just repatch and move the output to a different physical port during a quiet part of the set and reboot and restore at set change. X32 only never happened on M32, don’t know why.

There are more theoretical outputs in the x32 landscape than you can put into the output bus structure. This bugs me. Remember the pm5d had a physical output for every matrix and aux just like an analog desk?
So there are 16 buses available for routing, but there are 25 buses in the console. You can spin up a matrix and end up not having any output availability to use the damned thing.
8 fx sounds good unless you are using 4 of them for graphic eqs and the other 4 refuse to work as inserts and must be used in a aux bus out -> FX ->input channel configuration. The first block of 4 only really works for 100%wet time based effects.
If you like to do monitors from FOH, and you like, say, primary source enhancer or the sans amp emulator or a la2a on a channel, you may have to give up a graphic eq on a wedge to accomplish this.
Also, x32 has the worst implementation of AES 50 of the bunch.
We have cut down all of the cat5e and cat6 spools from 300 feet to closer to 200 feet to stop all of the audible glitches from stage box to console.
But the official apps, the third party apps, the 1ru m32 rack, all enabled by their OSC integration is unsurpassed, I hope you can enjoy those tools in addition to the surface.

 

[Tubetec]

I might just opt for a dpdt toggle switch marked 'panic button' for visiting engineers that reverts to a parrallel all analog signal path in the event of the digital pulling a funk down .

Reality for me is I'm not likely to run into limitations with any of these mixers on channel count or processing power , as far as hands on control goes as long as as I have reach out and touch analog continuously variable preamp gain on every channel and a fader to hand without button presses I'm happy ,fixing an eq ,monitor or pan control can wait .

 

[Rusan]

I want to point out a few drawbacks the x32 landscape presents.
It is the only digital desk that has dropped analog output while displaying output on the VU for me. It is maddening the first time. The tenth time I know to just repatch and move the output to a different physical port during a quiet part of the set and reboot and restore at set change. X32 only never happened on M32, don’t know why.

One of my 1/4" aux sends dropped out a while back, while still displaying good output VU. I thought I had a bad cable, but when I plugged it into my cable tester, it tested good. I then tried the cable on another aux send, and it worked just fine... I was sure something on that send had died internally, but on a whim I tried a different cable and it worked.

Turns out, the original cable's plug must've not been fully 100% seated into the jack, but at some time or another it did. As long as it was less than the thickness of a business card away from being fully seated, it worked. I tried other cables with that aux send jack and they worked fine, only that one plug didn't. What's weirder is that I couldn't visually see any difference between the plugs. Never seen that one before.

8 fx sounds good unless you are using 4 of them for graphic eqs and the other 4 refuse to work as inserts and must be used in a aux bus out -> FX ->input channel configuration. The first block of 4 only really works for 100%wet time based effects.
If you like to do monitors from FOH, and you like, say, primary source enhancer or the sans amp emulator or a la2a on a channel, you may have to give up a graphic eq on a wedge to accomplish this.

I figure you've already tried the obvious and it didn't work, but can't you place compressors and EQs in the left-hand slots and just adjust the corresponding bus send and FX return for 100% wet? I'm making an assumption here, as I've only put reverb in the left-hand slots.

 

[Chrisfromthepast]

I figure you've already tried the obvious and it didn't work, but can't you place compressors and EQs in the left-hand slots and just adjust the corresponding bus send and FX return for 100% wet? I'm making an assumption here, as I've only put reverb in the left-hand slots.

Right, so the 4 Fx on the left hand side work for 100% wet time based effects because the architecture restricts you to this. These FX return to a FX stereo return channel.
You may not use them as a PSE or 1176 or transient designer as an insert on a channel in the first 4 slots.
Creative work arounds are going to get your signal comb filtered unless one is very clever and careful.
I love a vocal bus with a compressor built into the file as a backup plan, and returning that turkey to a FX return just feels wrong in the digital world doesn’t it?

 

[thor.zmt]

Behringer X32 mixer

I'm late to the party at this stage but I think I might ask to sit in on a few live gigs to get a sus on the Behringer desk ,

I own a modified Yamaha 01V-96VCM for recording in 96/24 and have used the Behringer X32 on a fair few live gigs.

I think in terms of sound quality the Behringer X32 is not great. Even stock I feel the Yammie is better.

Where the Behringer scores in a complex live setup is that I can have many, many narrow band EQ's on each and every mic (with Drumkit, guitars and bass miked from the Amp, lead singers and backing vocals plus misc instruments these multiply like rabbits), and the same EQ's on the backline feed and the main feed so I can crank monitors up and the main system without being at the edge of feedback the whole evening.

So I can be loud (very loud), clean and feedback free. As every stage and acoustic situation varies, ringing out the mic's, Backline and PA must be done each time, but it is totally worth it. Having dynamics on every Mic also helps a lot.

Using a modern digital Mixer allows things that used to take massive racks of outboard gear. In the 80's we had like 31 Band EQ on backline and Main system, active crossovers and compressors on backline and main system, massive numbers of more compressors for the individual channels, multiple reverbs... And a HUGE mixing desk.

These days all it takes is one digital Mixer, plus Amp's and Speakers, maybe digital LMS, but often you can do that job on board in the mixer. Quite impressive in my view.

Thor

 

[Rusan]

Right, so the 4 Fx on the left hand side work for 100% wet time based effects because the architecture restricts you to this. These FX return to a FX stereo return channel.
You may not use them as a PSE or 1176 or transient designer as an insert on a channel in the first 4 slots.
Creative work arounds are going to get your signal comb filtered unless one is very clever and careful.
I love a vocal bus with a compressor built into the file as a backup plan, and returning that turkey to a FX return just feels wrong in the digital world doesn’t it?

Touché. Good points, especially the one about comb filtering.