Most Natural Sounding Mic Pre?

[cpsmusic]

Hi Folks,

I've got the opportunity to update my little home demo/songwriting studio. At present I'm using an Edirol UA-101 as a mic preamp. I mainly record acoustic instruments so I'm interested in DIY mic preamps that preserve the natural sound of the instrument as opposed to those that provide colour or character (there seems to be a lot of these about!). Just wondering what people would recommend as a "natural sounding" or transparent DIY mic pre?

Cheers,

Chris

 

[okgb]

Should ask about Mics as well , an important combo!
I have not personally used the Green pre, but I believe it falls into that zone as not too difficult d.i.y.
should find some in the black market The Millennia is that zone as well , so any differential  / balanced
mic design like the super green, and I'm sure many would argue ANY well designed implimented  pre would do
A couple I think just plain sound good are the Lola and the VP 28 , Good luck

What are you using for mic's?

 

[JohnRoberts]

Hi Folks,

I've got the opportunity to update my little home demo/songwriting studio. At present I'm using an Edirol UA-101 as a mic preamp. I mainly record acoustic instruments so I'm interested in DIY mic preamps that preserve the natural sound of the instrument as opposed to those that provide colour or character (there seems to be a lot of these about!). Just wondering what people would recommend as a "natural sounding" or transparent DIY mic pre?

Cheers,

Chris

Microphones will vary an order of magnitude more than almost any preamp.

There are a number of standard mic preamp chip sets with decent application notes that will be far more transparent than your mics.  Keep it in perspective.

JR

 

[Rochey]

If you are new to all this DIY and want a good, clean pre... Check out the expat audio Eden.

I'm completely biased, unlike the Eden itself

 

[cpsmusic]

Thanks for the replies. I should have mentioned mics! At the moment I have an original Rode NT1 and a pair of Rode M5s. But I'm going to upgrade my mics too - I'm looking into this at the moment. I was originally thinking of getting one of the Peluso mics (maybe the P12) but I'm also thinking of possibly getting a Nude C12, Nude Stereo Ribbon or one of the 3U Warblers (possibly a 47/67/87 clone). My plan is to have one good quality mono mic and possibly a good quality stereo mic - that's all I really need.

From what I've seen, a lot of the DIY mic preamps are built for their ability to provide character (a bit like guitar amps). What I'm not clear about is whether this character is only present when they're driven harder or whether it's always there. 

 

[cpsmusic]

Just a bit more on this - my mic budget might stretch to higher quality mic than those I mentioned, maybe a Neumann or something in that range. Regarding the mic pre, I'm thinking of taking an approach similar to that of someone recording classical music although there doesn't seem to be a lot of info about this. My background is pretty typical in that I'm mainly a blues/rock guitarist but lately I've been working in acoustic music  I'm familiar with "classic" rock recording gear - Neve, API. 1176, etc. etc. What I'm not really clear about is whether this gear is suited to "classical" music recording. Maybe I need to do a bit more homework!

 

[ln76d]

Do you have "Most Natural" "acoustic instruments"? 
Everything isn't so simple
If you take "flat" response microphone with "flat" preamp  and record instrument by close miking in some "live room", many listeners, comparing live sound with recorded, will tell you that the record isn't natural. Why, since you are using flat response gear?
Even with coloured microphone or coloured preamp you can capture close to "natural" sound. Microphone technique is really important. Also using more than one mike

Despite, this offtop

You can start from rane articles:
http://www.rane.com/note148.html
Many preamps built in all-in-one devices, such as audio interfaces, have poor headroom. It's usefull to know is't suitable for your microphone. Especially with modern condenser microphones.

 

[midwayfair]

The Green and Baby Animal Neutral pres are both essentially colorless and distortion-free under normal use. (I went with the BAN because itruns on a single DC supply.)

But as others have said, the microphone and its placement have the largest effect. Take stuff like proximity effect and natural room ambience into account. Small variations and resonant frequnecies in the microphon itsself. How stuff sounds in the mix. Even when solo whether it matters because most people can't hear the original instrument so worry about whether the recording sounds good and not the pre you used to capture it.

 

[cpsmusic]

Do you have "Most Natural" "acoustic instruments"? 
Everything isn't so simple

Yes, I realise that! Thanks for the link to the Rane article.

 

[ruffrecords]

I'm familiar with "classic" rock recording gear - Neve, API. 1176, etc. etc. What I'm not really clear about is whether this gear is suited to "classical" music recording. Maybe I need to do a bit more homework!

Neve were certainly used for classical recording. I once went to a recording of Faure's Requiem in one of the Cambridge colleges. Decca was doing the recording and the used a Neve Kelso mixer.

Cheers

Ian

 

[cpsmusic]

I've been having a look around for info about the Green mic pre. I found the meta thread but unfortunately a lot of the links appear to be dead. Is there a kit or a PCB available for this pre? If so, where can I get it?

Cheers,

Chris

 

[Upacesky]

I would also point toward some 500 modules :
Sounskulptor have the mp599, fivefish also have a neutral preamp, DIY recording equipment just released the cp5 which is clean with the possibility to add a color module. It's also one the cheapest preamp that I know of.
Sounskulptor also offer a 1 slot 500 series minirack.
[Silent:arts] offers 2 Neumann preamp clone which are really transparent and with high headroom.
With a 3 slot lunch box, it might not be the cheapest option to go the 500 way, but I like the modular way.

If you want a top of the top clean preamp, I would advice to have a look at Samuel Groner designs. He even released the PCB Gerber files so that you can order your own PCB. I have the feeling they are the best you can get if you're looking for clean (3D, natural, musical, real) sound.
http://www.nanovolt.ch/resources/microphone_preamplifiers/index.html

 

[cpsmusic]

If you want a top of the top clean preamp, I would advice to have a look at Samuel Groner designs. He even released the PCB Gerber files so that you can order your own PCB. I have the feeling they are the best you can get if you're looking for clean (3D, natural, musical, real) sound.
http://www.nanovolt.ch/resources/microphone_preamplifiers/index.html

Yes, I've come across the Monte Generoso before and I'm seriously tempted by this and the other designs. The only thing with these is that I'd have to get a PCB made, and also which design/revision would be most suitable?

 

[ln76d]

Yes, I've come across the Monte Generoso before and I'm seriously tempted by this and the other designs. The only thing with these is that I'd have to get a PCB made, and also which design/revision would be most suitable?

I would go for F or G. For PCB there are gerber files, so you will need to find some PCB manufacturer.
If you want "clean" pre, i think that Lundahl ll1538 is a good choice.
Only disadventage is the cost of transformer.
With transformerless preamp like green pre, making one preamp or four (for example), in one enclousure, doesn't make dramatical difference.
BTW green pre is pretty good preamp, i made complete four channels pcb, i did tests of one channel but never finalize the project I hadn't time to finish enclousure design for engraving front panel, so it's waiting for better times.
In the meantime i collected a lot of other preamps, so I have no rush with green pre, but someday i will finish it
If you will need Gerber files for green, i should have boards drawn by me, based on Peter design.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Just a bit more on this - my mic budget might stretch to higher quality mic than those I mentioned, maybe a Neumann or something in that range.

Mind you, the most talked-about Neumanns can hardly qualify for "neutral"; in fact there are not many LDC's (Large Diaphragm Condenser) that can qualify. This is due to the inevitable diaphragm resonance that occurs in the upper register and the narrowing of directivity due to size. You may fing "neutrality" much more easily in SDC's, where the resonance occurs outside the audible range. Not forgetting some MDC's from Sennheiser that can claim suoprior linearity (MKH series, very expensive).

Regarding the mic pre, I'm thinking of taking an approach similar to that of someone recording classical music although there doesn't seem to be a lot of info about this. My background is pretty typical in that I'm mainly a blues/rock guitarist but lately I've been working in acoustic music  I'm familiar with "classic" rock recording gear - Neve, API. 1176, etc. etc. What I'm not really clear about is whether this gear is suited to "classical" music recording. Maybe I need to do a bit more homework!

Neve yes, but API, 1176 are definitely not in the "neutral" camp.
In fact, due to availibilty of suitable components (VLN transistors and IC's), many cost-effective mic pres are very neutral. One that comes to mind is the Audient ASP, but there are many others.
Often manufacturers have to add additional circuitry to dirty the sound.
Anyway, it's very likely that your current mic pre is more neutral than any of your mics.

 

[peterc]

The Green pre is very flat/neutral. Unfortunately there are no longer pubs being made . The Jim baby animal neutral is virtually the same circuit and I think Jlm do a kit.

Jlmaudio.com

 

[okgb]

I believe there are a couple of green pre pcb's  on the B.M. now
or post an want ad asking for one ,  occasionally built ones show up as well.

Because Mic brands & models can be so different from each other you should go for what is a pleasing and satisfying sound
to yourself.  DPA / B&K  &  Schoeps  are somewhat standard for classical recording,  I use a couple of Schoeps pairs into
Great River MP2  preamps for my classical recordings , Dan Kennedy liken them to  Hardy M1's I believe, plenty clear for me
less likely [ and a harder build ] to find those , but the m1 projects are around , use a 990 opamp and good input xfmrs

 

[dfuruta]

Is there a problem with the Edirol?  Like everyone else has said, I'd think most cheap mic pres now would be sufficiently "clean" that the mic would be the limiting factor.

It's easy to get caught up in the hype about mic preamps, but if you've got something reasonably low distortion already, I can't imagine it'll be a noticeable factor against the room, mic placement, mic...

 

[cpsmusic]

Is there a problem with the Edirol?

Yes ,  the OS X drivers are no longer being updated beyond 10.9. Although I can live with this for a while I've found in the past that I start running into problems with other software that requires a more up-to-date OS. 

 

[cpsmusic]

Ok, so here's my shortlist (so far):

Baby Animal Neutral (or Green)
Lola
Monte Generoso or Design C (C would be more difficult unless I can find a PCB layout)
$5 (INA217)
ESP

Cheers,

Chris