MXL 603s... crappy capsule?

[Guest]

After reading the responses i got from my original post, I think I may have jumped to conclusions a bit quickly... But, since I destryoed the acoustic resistance network foolishly on the one I have, and don't have another 603 to play with yet I dont really know... BUT, for what it's worth, I rebuilt it out of 5 min. epoxy and it sounds pretty nice. :razz: a bit different than before, but quite useable... While I had it open I got a pic of the backplate if anyone is interested. I used a scanner, but it's pretty clear I think.
http://www.jcmaudio.com/MXL603s_Backplate.jpg

 

[bradzatitagain]

Here's a good online Raytheon catalog for submini data, especially the later tubes in the 7000s:

http://www.wps.com/archives/tube-datasheets/Datasheets/Raytheon-SP-1041-5M-8-61-WEA/index.html

Not tryin' to shanghai this thread (which rocks, btw,) but in the interest of submini tube activity everywhere.

 

[Guest]

Does anyone know anything about the MXL 991? It has been aparently removed from Marshall's web site... Wondering what the difference is between that and the 603

 

[bradzatitagain]

Not entirely qualified discussion of that here:

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=734&highlight=russian+capsule

 

[Guest]

I had not seen that thread. Thanks! No need for my pic then, but I'll leave it for now.

 

[bradzatitagain]

I didn't mean to sound, mmmm, bitchy with the "unqualified" comment--there's a certain amount of confusion even with MXLs data. A few threads ago while discussing the 797 Audio capsule and which mics have it or not I ping'd Behringer to see if they'd let loose w/some enlightening info re: their B2 Pro; they responded that they've used 797 Audio in the past but everything is now made in house. Knowing Behringer and their really wierd propensity for proprietary use only of anything re: their gear (tutored by Neumann?) I assumed two things from their response: 1) they're lying, entirely feasible, or 2) they're telling the truth but bought tooling from 797, maybe, or ripped off 797 methodology, much more likely.

If we take MXLs specs to be accurate then these are 6 micron capsules and if Svart's observations are accurate then the same capsule lives in the 990/991 as well as the 603s; a 3 micron version lives in the Nady CM90, if I've got that right. Economy wise a tube mod would dictate gutting the 990/991s or the Nady; I myself am tempted to get a matched stereo pair of the 603s and mod the circuit as discussed here, (@ 1/2 as much as the Sound Room Oktava pairs,) and gut a 991 or two as well as a 990 or two. There might be enough room for a Lundahl or a larger Cinemag, a sub mini and a circuit in the 990, two boards maybe, Marik's 2840 might fit in the 991. Roll something with the stuff learned in Thomas Hardy's Minitube DI thread, get a phantom powered tube 991, a sick mod IMO! Even if the xfrmr won't fit (does Cinemag still offer the 2840?) the psu would be pretty easy, just a phantom box w/the filament dc-dc. If I can keep myself from nattering away here I might actually have some time to do it, doh!

Marik: did you come to any conclusions w/your 603 backplate mods from the "Russian Capsule" thread?

 

[Marik]

[quote author="JCMaudio"]Does anyone know anything about the MXL 991? It has been aparently removed from Marshall's web site... Wondering what the difference is between that and the 603[/quote]

The 991 and 603 are the same microphone. I believe, the 991 was made for GC in order not to get a price match.

Marik: did you come to any conclusions w/your 603 backplate mods from the "Russian Capsule" thread?

No. That what happens with many of my projects--I start something, but then jump into something else, leaving the previous project fro the time being. But I always get back to it to finish... eventually... when I feel inspired. This way all the projects get alternated and I never get bored. :wink:

Another capsule to bring to your attention is the one in Studio Project C4. Although 603 is very nice--flat, accurate, and... cheap, in my opinion, there is nothing like C4, with wonderfull bass response (in fact, not many even the very best SD capsules have such a good one). Being a smaller size than 603, it is even more accurate, and has very good off-axis response.

 

[bradzatitagain]

marik wrote:

The 991 and 603 are the same microphone. I believe, the 991 was made for GC in order not to get a price match.

Wow, that's puts the price point at half the 603 if you buy the 990/991 set at MF for $100. So many microphones, so few paychecks...

Popular thread, btw, 1460 hits, just 600 or so hits fewer than the mic meta.

 

[Guest]

Marik, I do the same thing with projects... :green: I would be interested to know what your results are when you do get it finished though.

If anyone suceeds in putting a tube in the 603, I'd love to see pics. I think perhaps I'll get a couple more to fiddle with and not destroy it this time!

 

[Marik]

[quote author="JCMaudio"]
If anyone suceeds in putting a tube in the 603, I'd love to see pics. I think perhaps I'll get a couple more to fiddle with and not destroy it this time! [/quote]

My MXL991:

 

[Guest]

I just looked at the Freq. Response for the Nady CM 90: 40hz-16khz. The 603 is 20hz-25khz Thought I might check out the nady until I saw that...

 

[Guest]

wow :shock: what circuit did you use and whats the verdict on the sound? Does it use external power or phantom? That thing is JAM packed!

 

[bradzatitagain]

Do I see a transistor in there or are my eyeballs goofin' on me? Very cool Marik;so the 6111 is an 8 lead button. Let me get my sh%t together here and I'll post a pic of a typical 5 lead flat press, which is just the tiniest bit smaller.

How's it sound, man?

 

[bradzatitagain]

[quote author="JCMaudio"]I just looked at the Freq. Response for the Nady CM 90: 40hz-16khz. The 603 is 20hz-25khz Thought I might check out the nady until I saw that...[/quote]

Hey Gus and & all other mic ninja gurus: how much frequency response is capsule dependent vs. circuit dependent? That's to say, would the thinner 3 micron diaphragm in the Nady lead to this response curve or would a kind of crappy circuit be more responsible? Is this even an actual question? My intuition leads me to think it would be the circuit but perhaps since its 20mm instead of 32 or 34 physical limitations would conspire to limit frequency response. hmmmmmm.

 

[Marik]

[quote author="bradzatitagain"][quote author="JCMaudio"]I just looked at the Freq. Response for the Nady CM 90: 40hz-16khz. The 603 is 20hz-25khz Thought I might check out the nady until I saw that...[/quote]

Hey Gus and & all other mic ninja gurus: how much frequency response is capsule dependent vs. circuit dependent? That's to say, would the thinner 3 micron diaphragm in the Nady lead to this response curve or would a kind of crappy circuit be more responsible? Is this even an actual question? My intuition leads me to think it would be the circuit[/quote]

Both, but of course it depends on a mic. Better quality mics, with better components will have wider frequency response, on the other hand, bad quality trafos, smaller value caps, etc., will not only limit the response, but also dirt the sound. I cannot tell what's going on in Nady, as I never had it in my hands.

since its 20mm instead of 32 or 34 physical limitations would conspire to limit frequency response. hmmmmmm

Some well designed SD capsule will have actually wider response than LD and be more accurate in sound reproduction. OT, but it is actually amazing to think that some of 1/4" true omnies can be flat down to 2-5 Hz, but of course, they have completely different principle of working.

I never believe, and actually even look at frequency response provided by companies like Nady or MXL for two reasons:
1) How were they measured? Is it 40-16K within 1db? Or is it 20-25K within 10db? :shock: This Nady looks surprisingly similar to MXL600, which also had 3um capsule, but 30-20K published frequency response. Go figure...
I saw capsule response graphs from one famous manufacturer, and then response from a Chinese mic he is distributing. They were identical. I inquired about it, and he told me that the mic uses the very same capsule. As if grill, electronics, etc. don't contribute anything :?
2) The frequency graph doesn't say a bit about sound.

Do I see a transistor in there or are my eyeballs goofin' on me?

Yes, it is a BJT, left on the board from my experiments with transformerless tube--BJT hybrid output.

How's it sound, man?

To me it sounds better than stock :grin: Much smoother and much more musical. It cannot touch C4 with the same circuit in bass and low mids, though.

 

[Guest]

Thanks Marik, for all the helpful info., makin me smarter. As far as freq. responses go, you are probably right, though i will most likely stay away from the nady... I'd love to try the C4's but can't swing a pair right now... Perhaps I can do somethin similar to what you did with the tube 603... gotta check out those sub mini tubes... I am assuming it takes a psu?

 

[Guest]

[quote author="Marik"]Today I put into 603 a 6111 tube, wired as a direct coupled CF. The output trafo is a 1:10.5 Cinemag 2840, which is just the right size to fit the body. As I thought and said before, the capsule is actully very very good and I like the mic.[/quote]


Would you post schematic for it ? I cannot find 2840 transfomer on Cinemag site. Is it AKG T14 replacement ?

 

[Gus]

Do you want him to hold yor hand as well?

 

[Guest]

[quote author="Gus"]Do you want him to hold yor hand as well?[/quote]


I doubt, that he want to ...

 

[bradzatitagain]

[quote author="lampas"][quote author="Marik"]Today I put into 603 a 6111 tube, wired as a direct coupled CF. The output trafo is a 1:10.5 Cinemag 2840, which is just the right size to fit the body. As I thought and said before, the capsule is actully very very good and I like the mic.[/quote]


Would you post schematic for it ? I cannot find 2840 transfomer on Cinemag site. Is it AKG T14 replacement ?[/quote]

Cinemag still sells these, I was quoted $56.40; they also have CM2464 which is 10.7:1. They sell the 2840 as OEM to a big customer so they usually have them on hand. No word of any others that size.