Ask any decent SE and it will be met with a sneer.
Need advice for improving isolation in miking a string bass live on stage. Jazz mostly
- Thread starter Mr. Moscode
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Oh, I forgot to mention: the old, original AKG C3000 (..the one with three small red switches on the rear..) which has a super- or hyper-cardioid capability is - for me - the mic which captures the least bleed-thro' of any. With a very tight cardioid pattern, it ignores just about everything else nearby, and with sufficient bass to do justice to a 'bull fiddle'.
To hear it, or them:
To hear it, or them:
Original is the word. It used a combination of front LDC and rear SDC to shape patterns, a technique they abandoned in the new version.
"combination of front LDC and rear SDC to shape patterns" .... Interesting, VERY interesting.
Anyone has an "original AKG C3000" to share pics of the insides/capsules ?
Double Bass needs to sound right on live gigs.
M
I would like to try that for sure,
it's been a long time since I used one of those C3000 mics, last time was many years ago in the Audio Engineering school I studied.
I never given much credit to it because after trying many (newer) cheaper AKG mic I didn't like any of them, so I think I just started to dismiss all cheaper AKG mics as crap and marketing bullshit.
Well I don't even like my newer C414 versions (XLS and XLII), I find them to be really deceptive.
Maybe I need to give more opportunities to that C3000 mic.
So do you think it's actually a really good mic overall or you consider it more like a tool for those duties were you want to use an LDC but need less spillage?
Did AKG actually released any good condenser microphone in the last 20-25 years? or are they just living of the brand name that was built in the past?
k brown
Well-known member
In the service manual cutaway, you can see the tiny electret on top of the LDC capsule (part "2").
As I understand it, the main capsule is hypercardoid, and the little electret is omni; when it's mixed at a very low level with the main capsule, it's out of phase with the main capsule's rear lobe (the cardioid switch position), so it cancels out the hyper's rear lobe, producing the cardioid pattern.
So the mic's 'purest' sound will be with the switch in the hypercardioid position.
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Wow! Tiny electret capsule!
Thanks for sharing the drawings.
Could we replicate that DIY you think ?
M
As I understand it, because the whole mic is specified to run on "9 - 52 volts" I've always assumed that the large diaphragm, as well as the small one, is an electret. But why might that matter ..as long as it sounds good? (I'll open open up one of mine to take some pics, as requested by Migs, above.)
"..do you think it's actually a really good mic overall.." ..yes! ..But, of course, what I consider a 'really good mic' may be quite different from what you do!
I use it / them mainly for voice - because, in hypercardioid mode, it sounds (..to me, anyway..) very 'intimate'. In other words, at 18" away it sounds as if it's 9" away, and at 9" the results sound as if the voice is almost inside the listener's head! ..Check out the video above.
It has / they have sufficient bass to be what I'd call 'solid' - more so than a 414 XLII, or many other mics, but not as 'solid' as a ribbon - but without the topmost highs of, say, a 414 XLII, or many other (Chinese?) condensers. I'd use it for upright bass, cello, viola, marimba, xylophone, voice, 'subtle' drums without highest freq cymbals clash and 'shimmer' (listen to the end of the video, above), but especially as an intimate voice mic. A good general-purpose mic, and AKG (..and others..) used to make a simple phantom add-on inline box for it which uses a 9v PP3 battery to add the necessary voltage if your mixer or recording device doesn't offer phantom power ..so it's a 'use anywhere' mic, with, for instance, substantially more bottom end than an SM 57 or 58. It gives very little handling noise, and it's a far, far better mic than the versions - like the C3000B, or C3000, or C 3000, which followed ..and they're dead cheap for what you get, with narrow front pickup and negligible side & rear pickup. Like a small and compact Senn 441, if you will.
I'll open up one of mine and share pics in a few days - busy right now.
Thanks for the info.
I have the opportunity at the moment to buy an used original C3000, with some wear (some scratches and used look but not too bad), for $145.
Do you think it's a good deal for this mic?
Late comment on this May 2023 post, but this is so interesting to me. I've had a couple of DPA lavs incl the 4060 for a dozen years, particularly for this application (micing double bass) and while I don't love it and generally don't use it (because I'm not dealing with a live stage bleed environment) what I'm really surprised by here is that you recommend putting it inside an f-hole *over* using the included rubber bridge-area strings mount purpose-built for this mic. I'll have to try your approach!
For sure, I use it inside the F-Hole in order to reduce the spillage from the drums and other instruments, the wood itself will act as a barrier and also there's more double bass volume inside the double bass, the sound will be boomy, you have to go strong on the EQ, but it terms of reducing spillage from the drums and cymbals this is the best method I've found.
Also in the case of the 4060, it's an Omni microphone, so if you put it outside mounted in the brigde it will pick up so much drums that will be unusable.
Of course in a studio recording, you can put the Double bass in an isolated booth and then you can use whatever you like, I never use a lavalier or tiny microphone inside the F-hole in a studio recording where each musician is in it's own room, just for Live sound.
At the present, pickups improved so much and most doublebass players have invested in good pickup systems for their instruments, that the pickup sound is much better than in the past, so more and more in a live sound scenario I'm completely dithcing any microphone and just use the pickup channel
The DPA4099 with the doublebass mount is popular also for Live double bass, I've used it many times, and still use sometimes, but personally I never enjoyed the sound of it and although it's supercardioid it picks a lot of spillage and it's also easy to make the PA feedback when you need more volume out of it
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I'd have thought $115's nearer the mark ..but it needs to be original, with 3 red switches on the rear side - and working! If it doesn't have three red switches on the rear, then it's not the original version with hyper-cardioid, and so isn't worth buying at all. ..Scratches don't matter.
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Okay, here are a couple of pics..
Note that these are original (first issue) C3000s, so they show 'Made In Austria' on the rear, under the 'CE' mark. A later batch look identical, but don't have the 'Made In Austria' legend, but behave just the same. Note, though, the original AKG logo; three intertwined 'cardioid' symbols, with the letters AKG in the bottom cardioid symbol. Later so-called 'versions' have different logos.
Note especially the three red sliding switches - which are visible in the rear of the assembled mic - the TOP one of which is the hyper-cardioid switch. Later versions had two switches on the sides - if I remember correctly - but only two, not three, so no way to switch to narrow-angle 'intimate' hyper-cardioid.
Note also the foam-covered large and (mounted above it) small diaphragms ..both pointing forward. (Second mic, at the back, has been swivelled round so that you can see the rear of the capsules.) Three screws hold the case together, another two hold the rubber-mounted-capsules-section onto the upper basket. (The basket at the top - not shown in these pics - is also not cylindrical, as are later 'versions', but has a narrower front-to-back profile, more like a spade, making it instantly recognisable.)
Th-th-that's all, folks! Should be sufficient to be able to tell the genuine original from the lesser-quality 're-issues'.
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When I had my studio in NYC I suspended a KM84 using rubber bands over the legs of the bridge. Inside of a booth it worked well. The booth had a home made bass trap in one corner and was about 5X7 ft big and a large mattress one wall. Also doubled as a vocal booth.
2 or 4 rubber bands. Put the mic through the bands, insert into the middle of the bridge from the bottom. Pull the rubber bands around the bridge legs to the top around the mic. They should balance each other out.
I did that in the larger room on my 4/4 bass (full size) but it wound up sounding more like a pickup for some reason. But the recording was done and that was that.
I tried that on a live gig and while it gave a decent bass sound it also gave a decent drum sound. So there you go.
You're welcome!
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