No0b style questions about basic mic splitter (Yes, I did a search!)

[Commander Fluffypants]

I searched this board and the web in general for my answers. There were a LOT! Perhaps too much. And yet I couldn't quite find what I was looking for. I'm posting this in the informal section of the board in hopes that I will piss off as few of you as possible...

I'm looking to build a simple microphone splitter. Not a 12 channel or 24 channel. I just want to split one microphone. I know I can buy an ART splitter for $35, but I'm working my way up to building some more complicated pres and things. Already built the DIYrecording reamp box. (Baby steps...)

I have at least one session coming up where I want to record the entire band live in one room (as that's what I've got) and I have this crazy idea of actually running a live PA in the room (vocals only) so we can play live just like we do every Monday night at the pub.

I want to split the vocals and send one signal to the PA and another to the recording devices (Digi 002...)

I found schematics. I found discussions and even arguments about active/passive, transformers, etc. I found no convenient kits like the reamp box.

Can anyone point me in the direction of a place (or places) to source ALL the parts necessary, including the box, predrilled if possible (even repurposed...) and can you cut through all the mud online and explain what I should build (passive, active, etc.) Are there simple builds that have been documented that would be easy for a new builder to follow?

Thank you.

 

[Kingston]

I know I can buy an ART splitter for $35

It's not even remotely possible to DIY anything like this for $35. If you have all the build and measurement equipment and the knowledge you'd be lucky to end up at $50. Even if you had all the parts on the shelf already. You don't. The casing alone, whether re-purposed or not will probably be more than that. The connectors will be the worst - price-wise. And what about those 12 hours you will spend drilling holes. Or your CNC guy drilling holes.

Forget about it.

There are better DIY projects out there. Things that critical-mass manufacturers don't want to touch.

 

[Commander Fluffypants]

Ah, well that explains why I can't find a simple DIY project for this. Thanks. I guess I'll just start building some mic pres...

 

[sahib]

I have high quality 1 in 3 out mic splitter transformers. If it is of interest please PM me.

 

[Andy Peters]

I just want to split one microphone.

What's so difficult about building a simple Y cable with a female XLR on one end and two male XLRs on the other end?

They work. Cost to build is basically three feet of cable and the three connectors.

-a

 

[joaquins]

I just want to split one microphone.

What's so difficult about building a simple Y cable with a female XLR on one end and two male XLRs on the other end?

They work. Cost to build is basically three feet of cable and the three connectors.

-a

They do work but not so nice if you are using it for recording, even a passive tx mic splitter has effects loading in the mic, if you ask me best option is doing it after the mic pre when an Y cable will work perfect with modern gear.

JS

 

[JohnRoberts]

I just want to split one microphone.

What's so difficult about building a simple Y cable with a female XLR on one end and two male XLRs on the other end?

They work. Cost to build is basically three feet of cable and the three connectors.

-a

They do work but not so nice if you are using it for recording,

I don't know that recording makes a difference, more like whether the mic doesn't like driving two loads in parallel. Mics with active electronics generally have resistive source impedance so the dual loads will just cause a modest level drop. No change in sound character. A dynamic mic may experience some subtle differences from the extra loading. In fact there have been threads here about this IIRC.

even a passive tx mic splitter has effects loading in the mic,

A proper transformer split can tweak the turns ratio for reflected impedance so even a dynamic mis sees the same load as if plugged up solo, but these transformers cost a little more than Andy's Y cable.

if you ask me best option is doing it after the mic pre when an Y cable will work perfect with modern gear.

JS

For a one off recording session, you can try out he passive mic split ahead of time and see if it changes the sonic character of YOUR mic. Record a few minutes of the mic alone, and them with the mic split.. trust your ears. No sense making it more complicated than it needs to be.  it's also worth checking that your hard split to a PA head doesn't introduce any hum into your tracks.

I'm a little unclear about this recording session. Is this in a proper studio? With control room and studio. If there are other open mics in the room your vocal PA will bleed into them. If there is a console, they should be able to send you a monitor mix with just your vocal. You might need to pad it down to feed a vocal PA head. 

JR

@andy.. got heat?

 

[Commander Fluffypants]

Wow. This is interesting reading...

I did do a search before posting my query and I did read some things about basic cable splitters having a detrimental effect on the signal.

My studio is a one room project studio. I have approached different sessions differently, attempting to match the approach with the style of music, the inclinations of the musicians, etc. This particular recording, which probably won't happen until October, is a straight ahead blues band. We've had a steady weekly gig for years. (I'll be engineering AND playing drums simultaneously... I will get the room set up right and drum sounds nailed down, etc., before anyone arrives.) Point is, it's not Steely Dan. Getting it live is the most musical choice. I'm still not sure I will set up a PA. My goal is to make the band as comfortable as possible. For these guys, in this configuration, doing this music, the fewer trappings of the studio, the better the performance. So, if we play live with no headphones, I think we'll perform better. But of course I continually waffle about it....

I am aware that I will likely get a better sound, with the ability to fix small mistakes, if I put the amps in boxes and record the bass direct and reamp later, and gobo the living hell out of the singer and make him phone in the vocals and overdub them later (all things that I do for different kinds of projects)... but that's more of a pop approach.

I realize that I'm now discussing the recording more than the gear, but JohnRoberts mentioned not knowing about the session... Here's a video that just slays me. It starts and ends with Brook Benton recording at Fame; a one room (albeit with a control room) recording situation. You can see the band is still wearing headphones (a young Joe South on guitar!) Then there's Booker T and the MG's learning "Time is Tight"! Again, everyone live in the same room, but no vocals... The rest of the video is also just killer... Isaac Hayes rehearsing the horn section... But anyway this is similar to how I think I should approach this session. I was thinking that a small amount of vocal reinforcement would help the band and a splitter would come in handy... or maybe no PA, but still live vocal... Either way, I will need to embrace the bleed...

Sorry for the ramblings, but at least you can enjoy the video:

http://www.ina.fr/video/CPF07009789

 

[PRR]

Dozens of hit records were recorded with passive Y-cables off the mikes to PA and recorder.

Yes, we can find a bazillion technical objections.

The worst is ground-loops and buzz. Try it, in that room, with that equipment, far ahead of time. Often with everything within 30 feet and on one power-cord, it works fine. Run PA up to the stand and recorder 1,800 feet into the parking lot on a different generator, oh-oh.

The signal is a few dB weaker. You may not notice and surely have many dB gain in reserve.

The mike response is +/-?dB from "proper" load. Many mikes the difference is small; some mikes even "like" a little more load (lots of producers like to load-down SM58). You got EQ on board and in post-production.

Buzz-loops and long-long lines and Precision mixing are reasons you maybe "Must" use active isolated splits. Often you don't.

> vocal reinforcement would help

IMHO, the average pop singer is like an electric guitar. The amplifer is a MUST, just to get the musician to perform properly. (OTOH, the opera-oriented singers I used to work with distained mikes but could be critically dependent on a Good Room.)