Old AKG C3000 (released in 1993) with Dual Real Condenser Capsules..

[cyrano]

It seems very likely all capsules are electrets. The C3000 service manual doesn't mention it, but the C3000B and C4000's manuals do.

 

[k brown]

It seems very likely all capsules are electrets. The C3000 service manual doesn't mention it, but the C3000B and C4000's manuals do.

The '93 C3000 and the C3000 B would appear to have completely different capsules.

 

[cyrano]

The C3000 service manual is a scan from a paper manual, last updated in 1999 and should cover previous versions. The C3000B and C4000 manuals are from a later date. The last two mention it's an electret. I know, not proof.

But AKG mentions "48V phantom" for mics I know to be non-electret condenser mics and "9-52V phantom" for mics I know to be electret. That seems pretty consistent in all service manuals I have for AKG mics.

I'll admit AKG made a pretty mess of the numbering of these mics. Likewise with the C451/452 and the C414. I unraveled those years ago, but I just started looking through what docs I have for the C3000 since I only acquired my C3000s recently.

 

[k brown]

The C3000 service manual is a scan from a paper manual, last updated in 1999 and should cover previous versions. The C3000B and C4000 manuals are from a later date. The last two mention it's an electret. I know, not proof.

But AKG mentions "48V phantom" for mics I know to be non-electret condenser mics and "9-52V phantom" for mics I know to be electret. That seems pretty consistent in all service manuals I have for AKG mics.

I'll admit AKG made a pretty mess of the numbering of these mics. Likewise with the C451/452 and the C414. I unraveled those years ago, but I just started looking through what docs I have for the C3000 since I only acquired my C3000s recently.

Indeed - the original C3000 and the C 3000 B have nothing in common. And even more confusing, the current C3000 is the same mic as the C 3000 B, just with different cosmetics!

 

[cyrano]

Yes, but according to the internets, there's two series of the black C3000...

Very confusing. When I was piecing together the different C451s I came across a lot of bogus info too.

 

[k brown]

Yes, but according to the internets, there's two series of the black C3000...

Very confusing. When I was piecing together the different C451s I came across a lot of bogus info too.

Yes, the original C3000 and the current C3000 (both black, but very different switches and markings) are totally different; the current one is the same as the C 3000 B, but black. If you look closely at the bodies, the original C3000 has quite a different shape and grille from the C 3000 B and new C3000.

The lunatics are running the asylum at "AKG" these days.

 

[cyrano]

AKG no longer exists...

It's just a strong brand being run by Samsung, with OEM production in China. They don't even have an office in Austria. Archives were destroyed, all personnel was fired, stocks sold off.

 

[koho]

Yes I have several ..I'll dig out one or two. It's not the usual 'dual capsule' back-to-back arrangement; it's a tiny circular electret above a larger electret.

1st pic shows the three red rear switches, which distinguish this mic from the later (so-called) C3000s, and the old-style logo of three intersecting cardioid symbols. The 2nd pic shows the internals of two of the original C3000s, with the extra teeny top-most electret.

( EDIT: Sorry about that; I uploaded the same pic twice in a rush to go out with my sone to see 'Poor Things'. Er, shouldn't have bothered! ..Needs an hour trimming off, and Hanna Schygulla & Willem Dafoe seemed to be the only ones who could actually act! )

If you have one that you don't mind modding, I would suggest gently removing the foam from the front capsule, and then carefully prying off the circular grille that is glued to the front of the capsule. The grille in particular interferes with the smooth response of the capsule. And then set the mic to hypercardioid and enjoy. You could also remove the innermost layer of headbasket mesh but that might lead to an occasional hum. But that could also be adressed relatively easily if that more of an open sound was worth it to you.

 

[lampas]

If you have one that you don't mind modding, I would suggest gently removing the foam from the front capsule, and then carefully prying off the circular grille that is glued to the front of the capsule. The grille in particular interferes with the smooth response of the capsule. And then set the mic to hypercardioid and enjoy. You could also remove the innermost layer of headbasket mesh but that might lead to an occasional hum. But that could also be adressed relatively easily if that more of an open sound was worth it to you

How did you remove grille without damaging the capsule ? It appear that it is glued into the capsule ?

Thanks

 

[koho]

How did you remove grille without damaging the capsule ? It appear that it is glued into the capsule ?

Thanks

You probably already know, but you must be careful not to come into contact with the capsule membrane. What I did was I used a pair of tweezers and gripped the grille on the outside edge near the bottom screw. I gently worked it upwards until it popped off. That part didn't take more than a minute IIRC.

 

[jp8]

Part of that circuit may be multiplying the 9v to something higher. If it's an electret, I can't think what that 3.3 gig resistor feeding voltage to the capsule would be for. I suppose it's possible that it is an electret, and they're feeding some voltage to it to increase it's sensitivity.

I suppose it's there to properly bias the JFET.

Jan

 

[Khron]

I suppose it's there to properly bias the JFET.

Jan

That actually makes the most sense, indeed.

 

[k brown]

If you have one that you don't mind modding, I would suggest gently removing the foam from the front capsule, and then carefully prying off the circular grille that is glued to the front of the capsule. The grille in particular interferes with the smooth response of the capsule. And then set the mic to hypercardioid and enjoy. You could also remove the innermost layer of headbasket mesh but that might lead to an occasional hum. But that could also be adressed relatively easily if that more of an open sound was worth it to you.

I have to wonder though, since the polar pattern of a single-diaphragm directional capsule is achieved by the pressure differential between that on the front of the diaphragm and that on the rear of it, if removing the front grille of the capsule would alter the polar pattern.

Also, the foam disc on the back of the capsule may also play a role in creating the hypercardioid pattern, and how might that be affected if the foam deteriorates?

 

[MicMan]

If you have one that you don't mind modding, I would suggest gently removing the foam from the front capsule, and then carefully prying off the circular grille that is glued to the front of the capsule. The grille in particular interferes with the smooth response of the capsule. And then set the mic to hypercardioid and enjoy. You could also remove the innermost layer of headbasket mesh but that might lead to an occasional hum. But that could also be adressed relatively easily if that more of an open sound was worth it to you.

Ahahahahaha! ..if I have one that I don't mind modding.. I would mind modding any one of them, as I think they sound great as they are, and I don't want to change any one of them.

I see - in other comments that you've modded your own - fair enough. But to me, the original C3000s sound perfect just as they are. So, thanks, but no thanks.

 

[koho]

Ahahahahaha! ..if I have one that I don't mind modding.. I would mind modding any one of them, as I think they sound great as they are, and I don't want to change any one of them.

I see - in other comments that you've modded your own - fair enough. But to me, the original C3000s sound perfect just as they are. So, thanks, but no thanks.

Got it

 

[MicMan]

Got it

I think it was because the original C3000 sounded - and sounds - so good, that AKG/Harman/Samsung kept issuing new mics (cheaper to make?) with the same name as the original C3000 ..although the follow-ons never sounded anything like the original ..but they could cash in, so to speak, on the reputation of the original dense and intimate sound.

 

[Migs 31]

I think it was because the original C3000 sounded - and sounds - so good, that AKG/Harman/Samsung kept issuing new mics (cheaper to make?) with the same name as the original C3000 ..although the follow-ons never sounded anything like the original ..but they could cash in, so to speak, on the reputation of the original dense and intimate sound.

Sounds like Typical Corporate strategy.
Mk II, Mk III generally equals cheaper components with same idea/name.
Screw quality, let's make Money and rip off our faithful customers.
AVID/Pro-Tools, Mac Laptops/I-phones, Shure, TI, AKG/Harman etc etc etc.

Yeah ! Mr. Big Corporation.
Do us one more time, pleeease!


PS: None of my AKG D-12, D-19, D-224E , C-451, C-414, C-28 Made in Austria can be beaten sound wise by the late 90's and later, "AKG" plasticky, breakable, screechy sounding crap.

 

[koho]

I think it was because the original C3000 sounded - and sounds - so good, that AKG/Harman/Samsung kept issuing new mics (cheaper to make?) with the same name as the original C3000 ..although the follow-ons never sounded anything like the original ..but they could cash in, so to speak, on the reputation of the original dense and intimate sound.

I'm actually more inclined to believe that they intentionally interfered with the performance of the capsules in order to meet a price point. I think there is probably a very good reason mic makers don't usually glue metal screens to the front of their capsules. Here is another example from the same series:

 

[MicMan]

I'm actually more inclined to believe that they intentionally interfered with the performance of the capsules in order to meet a price point. I think there is probably a very good reason mic makers don't usually glue metal screens to the front of their capsules. Here is another example from the same series:

I have a couple of C1000s and have hardly ever used them, as I've never been satisfied with their rather 'thin' sound.

But for the very slight gain of 'body' and a little bass which this mod gives, I'd hardly bother. The usefulness of the C1000s is that you don't need phantom power; just slip in a battery. Instead of taking them apart, though, putting in a riser and an extra capacitor, I'd simply use a Sennheiser 421 ..or for more bass, a 441. Both are dynamics ..so no power needed at all ..and a much more solid sound. QED.

You say "..they intentionally interfered with the performance of the capsules in order to meet a price point.." ..so how much is a 1 microfarad cap, and a bit of plastic?

[ P.S: ..talking of bits of plastic, maybe the kid in the video isn't aware that the capsule is low beneath the top of the basket to allow fitting on top of the capsule the optional plastic 'hats', originally supplied with those mics, which alter the pickup pattern and freq response. Maybe he's never seen or used them, but they came with the C1000 to adjust the sound as you wanted it. ]

 

[paulcheeba]

Ahahahahaha! ..if I have one that I don't mind modding.. I would mind modding any one of them, as I think they sound great as they are, and I don't want to change any one of them.

I see - in other comments that you've modded your own - fair enough. But to me, the original C3000s sound perfect just as they are. So, thanks, but no thanks.

Weirdly we recorded our first 2 albums with one of these and they were our most popular. We used an Amek 9098i pre and eq, recorded to Adat and the records sold about 5 million. Everyone asked how we got such a cool vocal sound and they didn’t believe us when they saw our studio with a Mackie desk. After that we had the budget for 2 inch tape and a C800g but the records were never the same. Money messed us up. So did Pro Tools back then. But those cheap AKG mics weren’t bad on a great voice.