Good budget ribbon mics

[Barry Hufker]

Please don't let me derail the thread but I am concerned about the apparently naive belief that all ribbon mics are the same and that prices are only due to marketing. Such a belief does not take into account any research (sometimes for months/years), prototyping, marketing, tooling, quality of materials, advertising, patents, service/warranty and many other things such as overhead and financial break-even point. Ribbon mics aren't all the same in construction, design, manufacture or basic quality and to dismiss them as all being the same is not giving proper credit to those who make a truly superior product. It is true there is something to be paid for brand recognition, but that does not negate the effort that goes into a truly fine product.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

The price of a pair of lmics lenta pr is $350. price of a pair of AEA R44CE - 7'000 usd. do you really believe that AEA sounds 20 times better?

Irrealistic comment. An Aston-Martin costs 10 times a Toyota Corolla. It is not 10 times faster, nor 10 times more comfortable, nor 10 times whatever.
A big difference is resale value, justified or not.

 

[GeorgeToledo]

You still haven’t answered the question I asked above. Guys from Royer still waiting And your example is absolutely incorrect. I claim that the design of a passive ribbon microphone is extremely simple and is replicated in microphones from various companies (which you of course know about without any significant changes (if you know of significant changes, just hint). At the same time, the cost of these microphones ranges from a “budget model” to values devoid of any reasonable meaning, which no manufacturer can sensibly explain. But here marketers will be happy to help him! Now with an example about condenser microphones. I am ready to agree with you. The motor of a ribbon microphone is equivalent to the capsule in a condenser microphone. I just have one clarification. I can imagine a high school student building a ribbon microphone motor in the garage (Thanks YouTube!). But I can’t imagine how a schoolboy in a garage, in a vacuum, sprays a thin layer of gold onto a polymer base. (Once again, back to the simplicity of the ribbon microphone). Now the second detail. Impedance converter. In general, you are right. But the devil, as always, is in the details. Let's go back to our schoolboy. With proper skill, he is able to solder DOZENS of parts to the board. But this will take much longer than winding 2 wires around the toroidal core of the transformer. As a result, those three details that I wrote about above are extremely simple in ribbon microphones, and incredibly complex in condenser microphones.

I personally thought your comment about Royer was nonsensical, but for reasons that you probably are unaware of. Their mics are based on B&O and Spieden ribbons.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Despite the fact that the ribbon microphone consists of 3 parts and a bunch of screws,

You could say the same about loudspeakers, just a cone, a voice-coil and a basket, why would one cost 50 times another?.

 

[klem]

just a reminder to those that may come across this thread later...
there is obviously a wealth of helpful information on this message board. sometimes it can be hard to separate the headstrongs, blowhards, trolls, or guerilla marketers from those who are more interested in contributing to the community without a preconceived agenda or bias. the more helpful folks are generally the ones may offer challenging ideas to the initial opinion or question. people who want to learn, experiment, give back, etc. are very different from those trying to settle a score, inflate their egos, or sell you something by denigrating either other members or competitors to the product in question. a tell-tale sign is arguing in bad faith, or even more lazily, cherry picking parts of any number of reasonable replies by other (often more established) members.
fortunately, posts of this kind are often associated with some easy to identify metrics in addition to the qualities described above: the date of registration to forum vs date of post, a very low post count (if viewing thread within recent history), or more qualitatively, a high ratio of antagonistic remarks vs. arguing in good faith.
when these people come across your radar, you can do something very simple to help keep the signal to noise ratio of helpful information higher for yourself: hover over the offending poster's name, and click the 'ignore' button.

 

[Whoops]

There's a new record coming out this month from a well known Portuguese Fado singer where I used 3 budget Ribbon mics.
I did the recording, mixing and mastering.

On the Piano 2x TBone RB500 were used, plus also a pair of Neumann U67.
70% of the sound of the piano in the final mix is from the RB500 pair the other 30% from the U67s.
So most of the Piano sound you listen in the video is from the budget ribbons, which sound great in my opinion and they are always with me in piano recordings.

On the Portuguese Guitar I used also an AYM RM5 ribbon mic (Mice microphones), it's a budget clone of the Royer R-121, it sounds great. A pair of Schoeps CMC5 was also used on the guitar, and most of the sound comes from the Schoeps Mics, maybe only 30% of the RM5 in the final mix.

Voice was U67, and Doublebass was Neumann Fet47 and U87.

Here is the single that was just released:



UPDATED 22/09/23 - ALBUM RELEASED TODAY:

https://www.cristinabranco.pt/en/mae-2/

 

[Barry Hufker]

I didn't need to understand the language to appreciate the powerful performance. @Whoops you did a great job!

 

[Whoops]

I didn't need to understand the language to appreciate the powerful performance. @Whoops you did a great job!

Thank you so much mate, I’m happy you enjoyed and appreciate it, even though you don’t understand the language.

Cristina is an amazing singer and person, and they are outstanding musicians and great people also. It was lovely and an honour to work with them on this record. Sometimes I also tour with them in Europe.

Just wanted to to give some support for people not to be afraid to trust or use budget ribbon mics in a professional context. I’ve used many times Coles, Royer and RCA mics, they’re amazing for sure, but that doesn’t mean that budget mics can’t be as useful or achieve the sound you want. If the musician likes the sound he listens in the control room he will not care if it’s a $100 mic.
This record was the easiest record to mix in my whole career since they enjoyed the sound of the recordings since day 1.

Go on recording and have fun

 

[MicMaven]

There's a new record coming out this month from a well known Portuguese Fado ...

Wow. Mr. @Whoops. That is a truly compelling recording. Beautiful song in a lovely language - but what sends me most is the depth and delicacy of all the harmonics from the instruments - so many tones across so much spectrum - just marvelous. Thanks for that. James - K8JHR

 

[mhelin]

It might just be that the $100 budget ribbon out of the box requires a $200 service - how even can an uneducated sound engineer check that the ribbon in the microphone is properly adjusted? Obviously with Thomann you can send the mic back to be replaced with another but it may be even worse that the first one...

 

[Whoops]

Wow. Mr. @Whoops. That is a truly compelling recording. Beautiful song in a lovely language - but what sends me most is the depth and delicacy of all the harmonics from the instruments - so many tones across so much spectrum - just marvelous. Thanks for that. James - K8JHR

Thank you so much James, that means a lot mate.
The complete record will be out in a few days

 

[Whoops]

It might just be that the $100 budget ribbon out of the box requires a $200 service - how even can an uneducated sound engineer check that the ribbon in the microphone is properly adjusted? Obviously with Thomann you can send the mic back to be replaced with another but it may be even worse that the first one...

With TBone mics from Thomann they really pressured the manufacturer to have low tolerances, as Thomann doesn’t want mics to be returned and they’re such a huge store that have the power to pressure the factory. So I haven’t seen any TBone mic with ribbon sagging in the last 6 years.
Anyway like you said you can just return it, it’s easy and no big deal, not a lot of risk anyway

When I receive a budget Ribbon mic the first thing I do is to open the grile and check the ribbon for sagging, then I just do sound tests. That’s enough to know if the mic is good or not.
TBone’s normally are

As for the AYM RM5 the first one they sent me had sagging ribbon, I sent them photos complaining and they sent me another one with a very nicely aligned ribbon. I didn’t have to return the other one, which I then re-ribboned it myself. So now I have a pair

For a $100 budget ribbon mic even if in an extreme situation you have to pay $200 for service it’s still a very good deal. The Motors in all these mics are really good, bodies are good also, just the quality control varies a lot

 

[mhelin]

Btw. are there really any practical means to prevent the ribbon from sagging? I've heard that you should store the ribbon mics in vertical position but wonder if that is just an urban legend... Maybe detaching the ribbons when not used would help but that isn't very practical. Maybe there could be some kind of mechanical switch which would let the ribbon loose when not used, or tight again when taken into use, plus a threaded screw for adjustments.

 

[Whoops]

Btw. are there really any practical means to prevent the ribbon from sagging?

I think a properly corrugated ribbon, that was pre-tensioned before installation and tensioned correctly when installed will not sag or at least not sag that much.

I haven't seen older Royer R-121 with sagging.

But Marik knowns much more about this topic, he is the expert

I've heard that you should store the ribbon mics in vertical position but wonder if that is just an urban legend...

Yes that is highly advisable, I always store them that way.
Although I've seen in big commercial studios the ribbon mics being stored horizontally inside drawers,
it seems some places don't care that much

Maybe detaching the ribbons when not used would help but that isn't very practical.

I can't detach the ribbon most of the times without breaking it.
When you touch it it might easilly desintegrate

Maybe there could be some kind of mechanical switch which would let the ribbon loose when not used, or tight again when taken into use, plus a threaded screw for adjustments.

Maybe Marik can say what he thinks about that idea

 

[PermO]

For really good budget Ribbon mics the Tbone RB500 and the RM700 are amazing,
I highly recommend those.
And are also amazing for the price, I can order from Thomann without VAT so it's 80€ each,
unbeatable

I use them professionally all the time

I ordered (my first ribbon) the RM700 from Thomann on your recommendation...

Without VAT, incl. shipping it was 90,- euros, that's quite a bargain for a useable microphone.

It should arrive this weekend.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Btw. are there really any practical means to prevent the ribbon from sagging?

The ribbon's mass is so low it should not result in sagging.
Sagging comes essentially from two things: shocks, when the mic falls or is banged, and mostly wind. Singers should be warned not to sing in very close proximity to a ribbon mic; unfortunately, popular images advocate that. In addition, ribbon mics should not be used when there is wind, i.e. not outside or on TV/movie sets with fans simulating a storm.

 

[Whoops]

The ribbon's mass is so low it should not result in sagging.
Sagging comes essentially from two things: shocks, when the mic falls or is banged, and mostly wind. Singers should be warned not to sing in very close proximity to a ribbon mic; unfortunately, popular images advocate that. In addition, ribbon mics should not be used when there is wind, i.e. not outside or on TV/movie sets with fans simulating a storm.

Just to add that a ribbon can Sag is it was not Streched (pre-tensioned) between corrugation and final installation.
This a step a lot of factories in China skip completely, so some budget ribbon mics might develop sagging if this step was not done

 

[Whoops]

I ordered (my first ribbon) the RM700 from Thomann on your recommendation...

Without VAT, incl. shipping it was 90,- euros, that's quite a bargain for a useable microphone.

It should arrive this weekend.

hope you enjoy it and have fun recording with it.

There's some mods for it over the web, but I use mine in stock form and I like it, don't know if it would be better or not modded, but for now and for some years I'm happy just the way it is

Sometimes in the obsessive "Mod" world, people confuse "making it different" with "making it better", mods can make something different than what it was, but if you enjoyed how it was and served the purpose then making it different is actual making it worse...
If I'm happy with something I leave as is

 

[PermO]

Yes I noticed some people swap the transformer for a Lundahl... and most people commented not to border with that, it only makes it more expensive, not better.

I've also read there's a piece of foam inside the basket and removing that will improve high frequency a bit but it will also make the microphone more sensitive to airflow.

I'll just use it as is...

 

[Whoops]

I'll just use it as is...

Yes try it out in different recording s as is, if you like it then for 90€ it was an amazing deal

If then you feel you would like to change something, even if you change the transformer or the ribbon for a thinner one it's still a great deal