So yeah, the PC people have won once again..

[JohnRoberts]

The news is full of too many examples. In some ways this is not new, but modern social media has supercharged it, and recent school curriculum are teaching children bad lessons (IMO).

===

I am not a big fan of the pope and religion but his visit to Iraq was certainly historic and healing. We need more love and less hate.

JR

 

[PermO]

Academia quit the razorblades, toxic masculinty...

They're using Occam's old rusty lawnmower instead  ;D

 

[rob_gould]

That last one 

Just don't be offended, it's a choice you can make.

Yeah, it's interesting this.  At face value it seems like a good rule of thumb.  Don't let the buggers get you down etc etc.

But actually, what this means is that the responsibility for there being offence or no offence in any situation moves completely away from the person doing the offending, and into the hands of the person being (potentially) offended.  This strikes me as a bit unfair. 

What about situations where an individual is trying to offend someone?  Does the responsibility lie entirely with the target of this offensive attack to not be offended by it? 

Surely a better approach, if our aim is for a society where people are kind and empathetic towards one another and offence is minimised, would be a kind of two pronged attack :

1 - Try not to be offended
2 - Try not to be offensive

Strikes me that people who revel in being offensive love to demand that the easily offended should observe rule #1 a bit more, but perhaps if the offenders indulged in a bit of rule #2 more often, things might be more balanced?

 

[scott2000]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge81HrOjuAg

 

[PermO]

I don't fully agree with you.

Taking offense is also used to emotionally sabotage a so called "offender" when simply not in agreement, a means to "shut the other up", human behaviour at it's worst if you ask me.

It's now even a thing to take offense for completely made up fictional people, that's weaponized offense.

I think taking offense is always a choice, you don't have to, really, you don't.
Only ideologys tell you to be offended on their behalf for their greater good.

I'm not saying, go out and offend as many people as you can, just be yourself, don't let other people put boundaries on you because they don't know how to deal with you. Let it be their problem, not yours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOKn33-q4Ao

We'll never reach enlightenment if we keep to pretend to be offended, it's a gag.

So maybe the road to heaven is paved with bad intentions  ;D

I really like your cases btw, that's some fine craftsmanship there !  8)

 

[rob_gould]

I don't fully agree with you.

Taking offense is also used to emotionally sabotage a so called "offender" when simply not in agreement, a means to "shut the other up", human behaviour at it's worst if you ask me.

It's now even a thing to take offense for completely made up fictional people, that's weaponized offense.

Hmm, I am not in agreement with you that most people who're offended are putting it on.  I'm not saying that diesn't happen, but my position would be to treat the genuinely (rightfully?!) offended people as the basis for how you bahave, not the ones who fake being offended.

I think taking offense is always a choice, you don't have to, really, you don't.

*you* don't have to - that is clear - but I'm not sure that you can fairly make the same request of everyone.

I'm not saying, go out and offend as many people as you can

If that's a pre-requisite of this rule working, I see a flaw in the rule cos plenty of people do exactly this.

just be yourself, don't let other people put boundaries on you because they don't know how to deal with you. Let it be their problem, not yours.

It is possible to articulate your feelings while being conscious of how they might affect the other person in a conversation.  To not even try seems boorish and lazy.

I really like your cases btw, that's some fine craftsmanship there !  8)

Thanks!  Keeps me busy in the occasional moment when I'm not agruing with strangers on the internet.

 

[PermO]

I general I try to be a nice guy.

But there'll always be some ism-ists telling me that I am bad.
Simply because I don't support their cause.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

1 - Try not to be offended
2 - Try not to be offensive

The problem is that anyone that speaks their mind on subjects other than the weather (and even then...) is bound statistically to offend someone.
That is a big issue today; many people cease speaking their minds and leave the semantics domain to all sorts of weirdos, flat-earthers, religious extremists, complotists...
If it continues, the earth will be populated with people who reject science, philosophy and tolerance.
I know I can be offensive sometimes, but I will stand and fight for my opinions.

 

[JohnRoberts]

The problem is that anyone that speaks their mind on subjects other than the weather (and even then...) is bound statistically to offend someone.

That has pretty much always been the case. The difference now is the megaphone provided by social media so opinions get shared much more widely, to people without a personal relationship to moderate reaction.

That is a big issue today; many people cease speaking their minds and leave the semantics domain to all sorts of weirdos, flat-earthers, religious extremists, complotists...

that seems to be a working strategy to shut up speakers with different opinions.

If it continues, the earth will be populated with people who reject science, philosophy and tolerance.

already is, but their ranks are growing not diminishing despite the easy access to information. Sadly this easy access is also to charlatans spewing misinformation, disinformation, and worse.

I know I can be offensive sometimes, but I will stand and fight for my opinions.

Thats why we love you...

JR

 

[shabtek]

https://youtu.be/b0BC3F0kqtw
@48:00

 

[rob_gould]

The problem is that anyone that speaks their mind on subjects other than the weather (and even then...) is bound statistically to offend someone.
That is a big issue today; many people cease speaking their minds and leave the semantics domain to all sorts of weirdos, flat-earthers, religious extremists, complotists...
If it continues, the earth will be populated with people who reject science, philosophy and tolerance.
I know I can be offensive sometimes, but I will stand and fight for my opinions.

All fair enough.  I agree.  But let's use a real world example.

Permo's grandfather gave him this pearl of wisdom when he was a boy :

This is the advice my grandpa gave me when I was a teen;

"Never trust a guy in a dress"

Offensive or not?

 

[ComodoComplex]

All fair enough.  I agree.  But let's use a real world example.

Permo's grandfather gave him this pearl of wisdom when he was a boy :

Offensive or not?

Only offensive to trans folks. Not *real* people, silly! We needn't worry ourselves with perpetuating harmful stereotypes because words have no material effects -- and when they do that's communism!

John Robets, FWIW, my saying "You need to deprogram yourself" to user 37518 is more an expression of my lack of desire to sink hours into bringing someone on the far right over to the middle, when I could spend that time bringing people in the middle over to the left. Or just doing my job and being IRL with loved ones and pets. Just thought I'd give my 2c here to this thread, which is that yes, user 37518 is carrying water for white supremacy. Gotta love freedom of speech!

Here's another top notch $&*!@ing video that already explains exactly what I would say to you user 37518, and has some of the same reasoning that Banzai employs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUbxVfSqtt8&ab_channel=Shaun

 

[user 37518]

Only offensive to trans folks. Not *real* people, silly! We needn't worry ourselves with perpetuating harmful stereotypes because words have no material effects -- and when they do that's communism!

John Robets, FWIW, my saying "You need to deprogram yourself" to user 37518 is more an expression of my lack of desire to sink hours into bringing someone on the far right over to the middle, when I could spend that time bringing people in the middle over to the left. Or just doing my job and being IRL with loved ones and pets. Just thought I'd give my 2c here to this thread, which is that yes, user 37518 is carrying water for white supremacy. Gotta love freedom of speech!

Here's another top notch $&*!@ing video that already explains exactly what I would say to you user 37518, and has some of the same reasoning that Banzai employs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUbxVfSqtt8&ab_channel=Shaun

Again, you have not responded to the post I made with the PEW research prediction for 2050, Islam will become the dominant religion after 2050, you still think its about race, for once and for all FORGET ABOUT RACE, I was talking about Islam.

This is basically how the left attacks anyone who doesn't agree with them, you can't have a dialogue with these people, as much as I can't have a dialogue with many of you for example Dreams because she will just attack, mock, insult, or twist everything so it becomes about race or something like that, rob_gould mentioned trans people, when did I ever talk about trans people?

This is what the left thinks about freedom of speech:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTgpKoeekTU

You may consider the guys in the video the far right, religious fundamentalists, whatever, but they have the right to speak their mind, they are just standing there with banners and handing out flyers, but they are attacked by the "tolerance" the left preaches, I can provide many similar videos if you want. And that video is from 2012, today is much much worse.

 

[ComodoComplex]

Again, you have not responded to the post I made with the PEW research prediction for 2050, Islam will become the dominant religion after 2050, you still think its about race, for once and for all FORGET ABOUT RACE, I was talking about Islam.

This is basically how the left attacks anyone who doesn't agree with them, you can't have a dialogue with these people, as much as I can't have a dialogue with many of you for example Dreams because she will just attack, mock, insult, or twist everything so it becomes about race or something like that, rob_gould mentioned trans people, when did I ever talk about trans people?

This is what the left thinks about freedom of speech:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTgpKoeekTU

You may consider the guys in the video the far right, religious fundamentalists, whatever, but they have a right to speak their mind, they are just standing there and they are attacked by the "tolerance" the left preaches, I can provide many similar videos if you want.

You ask me to FORGET ABOUT RACE, but what race are Muslims predominantly? Yes, race is a social construct, and yes people from all over the world practice Islam and there is not a "muslim race". However, to pretend like your analysis is devoid of prejudice is silly and AHISTORICAL. Just look at the last hundred years, islamophobia in the US and Europe, and the context there explains itself. You can't talk about fears of "your culture being replaced" without carrying weight for white supremacists. Demographic change is natural and fine, and your fears of Sharia law being enacted in Europe are alarmist and truly infantile.

BTW, the example country you gave was Niger (uhh I wonder what *race* Nigerians are?), where you said they have a 7:1 fertility rate. As Banzai already pointed out and as the video I linked explains, you can't just extrapolate current trends into the future. I thought you were a man of science and reason no? Give it another 50 years and we should could rename our planet Super Nigeria.

 

[user 37518]

You ask me to FORGET ABOUT RACE, but what race are Muslims predominantly? Yes, race is a social construct, and yes people from all over the world practice Islam and there is not a "muslim race". However, to pretend like your analysis is devoid of prejudice is silly and AHISTORICAL. Just look at the last hundred years, islamophobia in the US and Europe, and the context there explains itself. You can't talk about fears of "your culture being replaced" without carrying weight for white supremacists. Demographic change is natural and fine, and your fears of Sharia law being enacted in Europe are alarmist and truly infantile.

BTW, the example country you gave was Niger (uhh I wonder what *race* Nigerians are?), where you said they have a 7:1 fertility rate. As Banzai already pointed out and as the video I linked explains, you can't just extrapolate current trends into the future. I thought you were a man of science and reason no? Give it another 50 years and we should could rename our planet Super Nigeria.

Come on, you are not making any sense, Super Nigeria? sarcasm? that is your way to discuss? The reason I gave Niger as an example is because it is at the top of the fertility rate list, no other than that. If you think that was racist, go tell the UN, not me.

Again, any comments on the post I made with the projections for 2050 on Islam? It doesn't mention race at all, it mentions religion, Islam in this case. Any comments?  here I'll make it easy for you https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=77112.msg983428#msg983428

 

[ComodoComplex]

The reason I gave Niger as an example is because it is at the top of the fertility rate list, no other than that. If you think that was racist, go tell the UN, not me.

Again, any comments on the post I made with the projections for 2050 on Islam? It doesn't mention race at all, it mentions religion, Islam in this case. Any comments?  here I'll make it easy for you https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=77112.msg983428#msg983428

Sure, my comments are so what? Who cares? I'm less worried that the world population is growing, and more worried that 3 people have more wealth than the bottom 50% of the world. And they're all US citizens.

Genuinely what's your point? Are you scared of Muslims?

 

[ComodoComplex]

Come on, you are not making any sense, Super Nigeria? sarcasm? that is your way to discuss? The reason I gave Niger as an example is because it is at the top of the fertility rate list, no other than that. If you think that was racist, go tell the UN, not me.

Again, any comments on the post I made with the projections for 2050 on Islam? It doesn't mention race at all, it mentions religion, Islam in this case. Any comments?  here I'll make it easy for you https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=77112.msg983428#msg983428

The facts are not the issue, it's your interpretation of them. The fact might be that Nigeria has a 7:1 fertility rate, but your interpretation is: This means the Muslim population is growing, that population practices Sharia law, their goal is to spread Sharia law to the rest of the world, they hate and want to eliminate non-Muslims (you've stated this already in a previous post). So why not just say it with your chest and stop hiding behind your supposed civility: You want the muslim population to shrink or disappear. You see it as a war, and you think you're losing.

 

[user 37518]

Sure, my comments are so what? Who cares? I'm less worried that the world population is growing, and more worried that 3 people have more wealth than the bottom 50% of the world. And they're all US citizens.

Genuinely what's your point? Are you scared of Muslims?

My point is that Muslims, I dont care if they are white, blue or purple, will become a majority, and yes, you should be scared of Muslims, your goverment sure is, otherwise what have they been doing the last 20 years in the middle east? Why are they so afraid that Iran gets a nuclear weapon? What was the Boston Marathon bombing all about? What about if you draw a cartoon of Muhammad and you get killed like in France? Among others..

So I ask you, What do you think will happen when Islam becomes the mayority? forget about race for a second, I am talking ideology. What do you think will happen? do you think it is so far fetched that they will try to implement Sharia Law? Even if they don't what do you think will happen?

again, what do you think about my post https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=77112.msg983428#msg983428 No one has discussed that, you are still stuck with Niger.

 

[ComodoComplex]

This is what the left thinks about freedom of speech:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTgpKoeekTU

You may consider the guys in the video the far right, religious fundamentalists, whatever, but they have the right to speak their mind, they are just standing there with banners and handing out flyers, but they are attacked by the "tolerance" the left preaches, I can provide many similar videos if you want. And that video is from 2012, today is much much worse.

Uhhh they believe that people shouldn't have the right to marry, and if they got their way it wouldn't end there. Their goal is to create a society in which homosexuality is seen as an abomination. They cloak their ideas in "supporting traditional marriage" but it's an exclusionary belief. Peroid. It's not "I'm speaking my mind, don't mind me!" it's "We should structure our society like this, you disgusting homos"

I don't think you understand the magnitude of violence that ideology inflicts

 

[user 37518]

I don't think you understand the magnitude of violence that ideology inflicts

Ok, you are saying they are not allowed to say what they want even if its in a peaceful manner, then you totally agree they deserve to be maced, thrown bottles at, sprayed with pesticide, and phisically attacked, you think that is justified just because you don't agree? There are more videos, not only anti-homos like you say, there are pro-life videos and they still get attacked. It used to be that the state tried to silence the left's freedom of speech, now the left is the one silencing anyone who doesn't agree with them. You have to agree, even in a small way, that it is some kind of Facism dressed as "tolerance"