Soliloqueen's k87(k67) and k47 capsules

[Whoops]

It is obviously not impossible to make a great piano recording, but it is simplistic in my view to say it is Recording 101. It is a complex instrument and as such, like the pipe organ, the reason the approaches are so vast is because no one technique satisfies. If it did, that would be Recording 101.

Achieving a good recording out a good Piano is very easy, and it's actually Recording 101, basic Stereo recording Techniques are all in Recording 101, trying out 2 or 3 in a good sounding Piano is pretty easy, and I bet some of them will sound pretty good.


If it's difficult for an Engineer to achieve a good recording out of a good Piano, then it's because it's a pretty bad engineer and should be in another line of work.

 

[Whoops]

But in a live-sound situation, you may have one, two, or even three of those criteria being covered, but as Garp expressed (and was shown in the video), the amount of other instruments - and the volume of spill from horns and drums on the stage, as well as monitors bleeding into the mics creates a pretty huge challenge.

No one was talking about a Live Sound situation, you are diverging the conversation.
My post and the post I replied to was only concerning recording Piano in a studio scenario.

For a Live sound situation, if you don't have Loud instruments on stage (Drums, horns), then it's easier because you have less spillage on the mics. But you are still close to Feedback on the PA and also on the Floor Monitors (in case musicians ask Piano on the monitors)

So close micing in normally used, sometimes very very close micing. 2 diferent pairs of Mics are commonly used.

If you have Loud instruments on stage and you need a loud volume of Piano in the floor monitors then you're better of by joining the microphones with some Piano pickups.
The Pickups will solve the problem of spillage and will also allow you a much higher volume before feedback.

Yamahiko, C-Ducer and Helpinstill are the most used ones.
My favorites are by far the Yamahiko pickups

Some people might impulsively manage that situation well, but really, it's something that I think requires a lot of experience.

Sure, I agree 100%.
Capturing Piano for Live Sound reinforcement requires a lot of experience and also the correct tools (microphones and pickups)

 

[Paul W]

Please start another thread for discussions of piano miking. They are plenty interesting, but do not belong here.

 

[Emmathom]

This is wht you get now.
View attachment 134454

I will have to "build" a headbasket support 'cause my K47 flat came without...

 

[soliloqueen]

thinking of adding an option to buy reject capsules for like $50. you pay $50 and you get a capsule that's absolutely fucked. might be fun for like, instrument or effect mics

 

[EarthTone]

I just got wanted to chime in briefly to say I finally had time (curse my multiple dayjobs!) to build a pair of u87 clones and try out the v2 K87 Soliloqueen capsules I bought in the spring and I am actually amazed concerning how they sound! I love them! So natural, full, and un-hyped yet clear. I chose a Moby bv.13 and pretty much the stock BOM and the Arienne k87 capsules and I couldn’t be happier with these. I attached a sample of how one sounds on my saxophone. One microphone is for me, one for my best friend who’s an amazing guitarist. Just ordered more parts so I can build myself a second one with my remaining leftover k87. Great capsules, thank you Arienne Audio! Superb work. For anyone wondering- This batch of capsules is the v2 but I’m not sure if they have the bass correction. I think that they don’t. So they are 1db lighter in the lowest octave, as far as I understand it. This is fine for sax and guitar though. I expect to be ordering more once she gets the newest batch back up & running with the fixes.

Here is the audio sample: https://on.soundcloud.com/c9pT7KhaehyYobGDA

 

[bremusound]

Looking forward to get my K87 pair!
Two weeks to go, then it‘s the first anniversary of placing my order

 

[soliloqueen]

Looking forward to get my K87 pair!
Two weeks to go, then it‘s the first anniversary of placing my order

Sorry you slipped under the radar like this. Certain people in the EU have had extended delays due to shipping restrictions when the previous batches got done, so it's mostly people in the EU that don't have their K87 capsules right now. It's about 50 people.

 

[bremusound]

Thanks, will i get a shipping notification?

 

[soliloqueen]

Thanks, will i get a shipping notification?

Yes, of course. There are currently no issues preventing shipping to the EU anymore, so the next batch that gets done should cover everyone with an outstanding order at once.

 

[bremusound]

That‘s great news, thanks again!

 

[koki]

Great news ! Waiting from november 2023.

 

[JeffKall]

Sorry you slipped under the radar like this. Certain people in the EU have had extended delays due to shipping restrictions when the previous batches got done, so it's mostly people in the EU that don't have their K87 capsules right now. It's about 50 people.

I MAY be the ONLY person in the USA still waiting on my 87’s !

 

[shabtek]

You are Not alone JK

 

[AdamFrisen]

I thought I have been waiting long for K87 capsule but I was wrong. I hope we all in Europe will get it with the next batch.

 

[soliloqueen]

I thought I have been waiting long for K87 capsule but I was wrong. I hope we all in Europe will get it with the next batch.

That's the plan! I've been able to slowly pick off most of the open orders so there aren't a ton of people still waiting. A single batch of 100 comfortably covers every open order with about 20 or so extra. You unshipped customers are my top priority, that's why I've been working so hard to get the k87 in ship shape. There shouldn't be any open orders left after the next batch. Everyone left will get their capsules at once. I just need to make sure everything's dialed in perfect before I knock them all out.

 

[EarthTone]

I MAY be the ONLY person in the USA still waiting on my 87’s !

Similar happened to me the first time. I need two more, and the ones I have are sooooo good, I may just go ahead and place a new order now to avoid missing out on the next batch. Hoping for the best and soon!

 

[OneRoomStudio]

I just had the opportunity to try three capsules in the same mic (an M49c clone). Here are my non-scientific thoughts:

Maiku K47:
If you listen to this first, with no reference, it sounds great. Honestly, it sounds pretty good in general, but it's definitely more mid-forward than the other two. If you're concerned with "cutting through the mix," this would be the one of these three to choose. Interestingly, while I definitely hear the trademark ~5kHz bump, I also hear a lot more around 1kHz with this capsule. Not sure why. I checked it with an analyzer, and yup - more energy around 900Hz/1kHz.

Thiersch "Blue Line" (PVC) M7:
Slightly lower gain than the Maiku (~2dB less). Much more low-end than the Maiku, and much less in the ~1kHz region. Looks and sounds like 4-5dB less than the Maiku. Again, not sure why. Sounds pretty flat, yet warm. Definitely brings out the "gravel" in my voice. Compared to this capsule, the Maiku sounds a little "pinched."

Arienne Audio Flat K47:
Not surprisingly, this capsule sounds roughly halfway between the other two. The sensitivity is closer to the Maiku, but it has more low end (maybe not quite as much at the M7), and less weird midrange. It still has a little more midrange than the M7 though, which sounds a hair muddy by comparison. Very nice sounding, but it doesn't have quite as much "vibe" (maybe fullness and/or character?) as the M7, which could be a good thing in a busy mix.

Describing sounds is always difficult and my ears are my ears, flaws and all, but that's what I hear, confirmed by spectral analysis.

 

[soliloqueen]

I just had the opportunity to try three capsules in the same mic (an M49c clone). Here are my non-scientific thoughts:

Maiku K47:
If you listen to this first, with no reference, it sounds great. Honestly, it sounds pretty good in general, but it's definitely more mid-forward than the other two. If you're concerned with "cutting through the mix," this would be the one of these three to choose. Interestingly, while I definitely hear the trademark ~5kHz bump, I also hear a lot more around 1kHz with this capsule. Not sure why. I checked it with an analyzer, and yup - more energy around 900Hz/1kHz.

Thiersch "Blue Line" (PVC) M7:
Slightly lower gain than the Maiku (~2dB less). Much more low-end than the Maiku, and much less in the ~1kHz region. Looks and sounds like 4-5dB less than the Maiku. Again, not sure why. Sounds pretty flat, yet warm. Definitely brings out the "gravel" in my voice. Compared to this capsule, the Maiku sounds a little "pinched."

Arienne Audio Flat K47:
Not surprisingly, this capsule sounds roughly halfway between the other two. The sensitivity is closer to the Maiku, but it has more low end (maybe not quite as much at the M7), and less weird midrange. It still has a little more midrange than the M7 though, which sounds a hair muddy by comparison. Very nice sounding, but it doesn't have quite as much "vibe" (maybe fullness and/or character?) as the M7, which could be a good thing in a busy mix.

Describing sounds is always difficult and my ears are my ears, flaws and all, but that's what I hear, confirmed by spectral analysis.

people are always surprised at how clinical the flat k47 sounds, at least the shentuo-made versions. i think they're really expecting it to sound like a k47, which it doesn't. i saw someone on RGO describe it as a more mellow ck12, which isn't wrong. i did make an effort to give the new one a bit more color to my taste

i didn't touch the mids or treble at all, but it now begins to roll off above 5k like a regular k47, instead of extending all the way to 20k:


diff chart between a v1 flat k47 and a few current production. I know some may balk at the loss of extension, but inherently, the k47 design's upper air is not good quality. it's scratchy. it's better rolled off slightly IMO. that's kind of my issue with the k47. the k87, i feel, has too much good-sounding presence, whereas the k47 has a good amount of off-sounding presence. the rolloff in a normal neumann k47 masks the unnatural tone quality of the presence and i think the v1 flat k47 revealed this problem, so i did my best to fix this issue. this is a big reason why i don't really like the m49v reissue. i think that the new tube highlights this issue with the k47 too. m49 clone builds with the same tube could suffer from really scratchy air with the old design, so i made a few tweaks knowing that this configuration would probably be a popular project. the new production flat k47 sounds more like an LDC and less like an SDC. The top end is slightly more refined. We're talking 1.5dB changes here, so nothing huge.

 

[Elvis the Pug]

I MAY be the ONLY person in the USA still waiting on my 87’s !

Actually, I am also waiting and I reside in the USA. I am usually pretty patient but there is of course a limit.