team politics talking points.

[hodad]

Interesting stuff. MIlitary leaders were concerned Trump would use them in his effort to overturn the election on 1/6.

Christopher Miller, who served as acting Secretary of the Defense on Jan. 6, told the Department’s inspector general that he feared “if we put U.S. military personnel on the Capitol, I would have created the greatest Constitutional crisis probably since the Civil War.” In congressional testimony, he said he was also cognizant of “fears that the President would invoke the Insurrection Act to politicize the military in an anti-democratic manner” and that “factored into my decisions regarding the appropriate and limited use of our Armed Forces to support civilian law enforcement during the Electoral College certification.”

Crisis of Command: The Pentagon, The President, and January 6

 

[Jim McKeveny]

I do not have much hope for this working, but invite all the passionate, angry, inflamed, forum members to post whatever is bothering them at the moment, here instead of threads about other topics..

I will not attempt to be the apologist for every partisan slight real and imagined, but may as time allows try to illuminate some issues that seem poorly founded or unsupported by fact.

No I will not cite any examples.

JR

We already had our civil war, I don't expect sentient people to repeat that kind of mistake.

It won't be sentient people.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Interesting stuff. MIlitary leaders were concerned Trump would use them in his effort to overturn the election on 1/6.

Christopher Miller, who served as acting Secretary of the Defense on Jan. 6, told the Department’s inspector general that he feared “if we put U.S. military personnel on the Capitol, I would have created the greatest Constitutional crisis probably since the Civil War.” In congressional testimony, he said he was also cognizant of “fears that the President would invoke the Insurrection Act to politicize the military in an anti-democratic manner” and that “factored into my decisions regarding the appropriate and limited use of our Armed Forces to support civilian law enforcement during the Electoral College certification.”

Crisis of Command: The Pentagon, The President, and January 6

sounds like you are finally on the same talking point that the rest of your team was on last week, while they are now distracted by demonizing Joe Manchin and West Virginia voters. If BBB is really dead, for now at least, they may pivot back to HR1.

JR

 

[hodad]

sounds like you are finally on the same talking point that the rest of your team was on last week, while they are now distracted by demonizing Joe Manchin and West Virginia voters. If BBB is really dead, for now at least, they may pivot back to HR1.

JR

1) Folks on the left aren't demonizing WV voters. WV voters support Biden's initiatives. Manchin's real constituency is the fossil fuel tycoons who give him so much money. And of course, Manchin himself is a fossil fuel tycoon (not the richest one, but rich enough.)

2) Thank you for noting my perceived tardiness. When you catch up to reality I'll be sure to note how long it took you to get there.

3) HR1 would be nice. Why don't you write your senators & tell them you'd like them to support it?

 

[fallout]

Liberal policies are so great that everyone is leaving liberal utopias

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/2021-population-estimates.html

 

[MicDaddy]

since when did the "progressives" become the party of "regression" The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels

without energy everyone is dead, but then that also aligns with "zero carbon" so it's a win win for the lefty upper tier class global fascists

I stopped by to drop my how is "100 days of masks" going but saw something about the big bad oil tycoons (how do you think we got here?)

 

[JohnRoberts]

In 1914 during WW1 there was a spontaneous Christmas truce on the western front... maybe we could try a little truce right here?

JR

 

[MicDaddy]

In 1914 during WW1 there was a spontaneous Christmas truce on the western front... maybe we could try a little truce right here?

JR

While It's a beautiful story that I listen to every year (AM mandatory for the low bandwidth atmosphere,) not while kids are in masks while adults continue LARPing, all due respect. There's a huge push to "nudge" kids into shots that have zero upside with unmeasured downside. This is shit risk management and total neglect of basic cost benefit analysis. There's a near zero % possibility of ruinous outcome for humans (fear Feb (lots were late) and March of 2020) didn't see fruition (800,000 deaths is fiat science.)

"Let's go Brandon" the guy's awareness is a zero playing dominated strategies same guy who doesn't want me celebrating and you want me to sit quietly?

Happy Hodl days

 

[hodad]

So, surprise surprise, vote fraud is an imaginary villain ginned up by Trump (& Republicans in general) to pass laws making it harder for "those people" to vote. Now that this is all settled, I am certain that Republicans will move to rescind those restrictive and utterly unwarranted laws in the upcoming legislative session:

Election investigators found just four absentee ballots in the 2020 presidential election from voters who had died, all of them returned by relatives.
The State Election Board referred the cases to the attorney general’s office this month after investigators reviewed dozens of allegations. Almost all voters were found to be alive.
The tiny number of ballots actually cast on behalf of deceased voters contrasts with Republican Donald Trump’s false accusation that there were 5,000 dead voters in Georgia’s election.

Alleged ‘dead’ Georgia voters found alive and well after 2020 election

 

[JohnRoberts]

Again than you for keeping this in the correct thread. The "voter suppression"/"Voter fraud" dualism predates ex-President Trump by decades but the political operators return to these old tropes over and over because they work to energize their respective bases.

Politics is all about accumulating and holding power so when viewed through that lens these talking points and spin makes more sense, to manipulate low information voters. It "should" be mostly noise to the informed audience.

JR

 

[hodad]

The "voter suppression"/"Voter fraud" dualism predates ex-President Trump by decades but the political operators return to these old tropes o

JR

"Tropes" are one thing; I'm far less worried about Republicans talking about this stuff than I am with them making actual laws that make it more difficult to vote, and that enhance the opportunities for wannabe tyrants to steal elections. And that is what they did here in Georgia, and now the lies they told to justify these new laws are being shown (by a Republican AG,no less) to be exactly that--lies.

This is not, as you so quaintly put it, just "talking points and spin." It is actual laws, John. Laws built on lies. And I'm not convinced that ignoring this as noise actually makes you more informed.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Laws built on lies.

I think you've got a bumper sticker there....

Sadly I am a little too informed for comfort (IMO). I can barely stand to watch the news it has become so politicized these days.

JR

 

[hodad]

This after a year of attacks on voting rights in Ga. Apparently the GOP don't feel they've done enough yet to shore up their waning power base.

The election-year proposals would eliminate all remaining ballot drop boxes, discard the state’s recently purchased voting touchscreen machines...

https://www.ajc.com/politics/georgi...lican-legislators/BRWTOLLYT5DGXEG6W3AO77NGJY/
Of course, they're still on the anti-Dominion crazy train. Maybe a few of Georgia's "finest" will find themselves on the receiving end of a lawsuit before the session is over.

 

[JohnRoberts]

one more time with feeling...
===
I have been following how Mark Zukerberg invested over $400M into funding elections. That is roughly equal to the federal governments spending.

wash times article

If you want to worry about our republic, worry about the big tech oligarchs injecting themselves in the middle of our election process. They already control the news flow.

“voting does not matter….counting votes does”

JR

 

[hodad]

If you want to worry about our republic, worry about the big tech oligarchs injecting themselves

JR

I could worry about that, and maybe I do. Do you worry about the oligarchs who've groomed and selected activist right-wing judges? Do you worry about those right wing judges who make it easier for big corps to funnel money into elections, and the right wing politicians who do nothing about it?

**zuckerberg, as far as I can tell, is no lefty. He's cozied up to quite a few conservative politicians in his time, and his prevailing interest seems to be increasing his own wealth--not very lefty, that. And if you knew more than what your right-wing propaganda rags tell you, you'd know that people on the left have a lot of beefs with him as well.

If he gave money that increased access to voting and potentially increased voter turnout, can I really be that mad? I welcome participation in the democratic process by as many eligible citizens as wish to participate. I, and people on the left in general, have no interest in limiting access to voting--why are Republicans so gung-ho about this? Oh, yeah, it's because they're in the minority, and at this point in their history would much rather suppress votes than actually appeal to more people with their policies.

One more: Please recall that Georgia's governor and SOS are Republicans, and at least one of them (Raffensperger) donated to Trump's campaign. Do you really think if there had been issues with Georgia's elections, and their president, the leader of their party came to them to uncover those issues and "find" those votes, that they wouldn't have done it? It's quite simple: Trump lost. Loeffler lost. Perdue lost. Nothing wrong with the elections--they're just a bunch of LOSERS. If we had any need for new elections "safeguards" (outside of safeguarding the GOP's hold on power), don't you think it would have been outed by the REPUBLICANS in charge of the process, or by the many audits, reviews and recounts? Or have you gone down the conspiracy rabbit hole with the rest of your party?

 

[JohnRoberts]

I believe we had this exact conversation already but I will repeat what I said in case you forgot.

I blame ex-president Trump for the republicans losing the senate. He is still deranged over anecdotal shenanigans related to vote counting, but his hyperbolic accusations hurt republican voter turnout and IMO the two senate run off seats.

The real election manipulation was by media suppressing damaging news, like Hunter's laptop with evidence of influence pedaling. The FBI and others have some splainin to do, but Durham is still methodically chipping away at campaign malfeasance (Steele dossier and Clinton campaign disinformation). It still stands to be seen whether his investigation will be allowed to climb the ladder. Right now he is charging low level players to get them to implicate those higher up the food chain.

I don't feel lucky and if the democrats overturn the senate filibuster rule that would allow them to ram through HR1. With federal control of local elections the swamp might never lose another election.

JR

 

[Matador]

I don't feel lucky and if the democrats overturn the senate filibuster rule that would allow them to ram through HR1.

Which provisions of HR1 are you so strongly against, aside from sweeping generalizations about the "swamp" and federalism? How exactly does the bill (in its current form) cement incumbency?

 

[JohnRoberts]

Our founders were serious students of governance and understand how power corrupts. The constitution specifically stipulates that,,,

What Article I, Section 4, Clause 1 Says​

"The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators."
====

But they already messed with the "chusing" of senators, by passing the 17th amendment. Before that Senators were appointed by state legislators giving the states more power vs the federal government (these days known as the swamp).

Do you want the entire country run like San Francisco?

Just off the top of my head HR1 expands mail in balloting. I am surely repeating myself but France outlawed mail in balloting because of widespread fraud. I suspect HR1 includes other such intended to tilt the scales towards one party. That is what politicians do full time (try to get re-elected).

JR

 

[Matador]

Do you want the entire country run like San Francisco?

Just off the top of my head HR1 expands mail in balloting. I am surely repeating myself but France outlawed mail in balloting because of widespread fraud. I suspect HR1 includes other such intended to tilt the scales towards one party. That is what politicians do full time (try to get re-elected).

I have no concept of what ties HR1 to San Francisco.

There's no need to 'suspect what HR1 includes', because the entire text is online. It's also unfair to lump whatever happened in France in the 70's with mail-in balloting today, because the French system of voting is entirely different from ours and voting policies need to be taken as a whole, not singled out in parts. For example, voting day in France is on the weekend (typically Sunday), and you can't be fired for going to vote. Voter registration is automatic in France once you turn 18. France also allows proxy voting.

If you can point me to something in HR1 that apparently benefits only one party I'd love to see it.

And since we're quoting the founders, let's remember Hamilton wrote:

The process of election affords a moral certainty, that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications. Talents for low intrigue, and the little arts of popularity, may alone suffice to elevate a man to the first honors in a single State; but it will require other talents, and a different kind of merit, to establish him in the esteem and confidence of the whole Union, or of so considerable a portion of it as would be necessary to make him a successful candidate for the distinguished office of President of the United States.

And we all know how that turned out...

 

[hodad]

But they already messed with the "chusing" of senators, by passing the 17th amendment. Before that Senators were appointed by state legislators giving the states more power vs the federal government (these days known as the swamp).

Do you want the entire country run like San Francisco?

Yes, and the Constitution had to be amended to extend voting rights to Blacks and women. In many states only white male property owners were allowed to vote. Now, I have heard random Republicans discuss returning to some of those proscriptions--thankfully, the Constitution has been amended to make at least some of that prohibitively difficult. (I'm also amused in a rather condescending fashion that so many Republicans are still butthurt about the common people getting to elect Senators.)

If you and your fellow Republicans want to limit opportunities to exercise their right to vote, come right out and say it. I grow weary of all the fearmongering and other nonsense you all use as a cover for your true goal: keep as many of "those people" (by which I mean Democrats, but which in practice means in large measure people of color--the "classic" definition of those people) from voting as you can legally manage to. And if that means packing the courts with ultra-partisan conservative lackeys, so be it.

With federal control of local elections the swamp might never lose another election.

Not the issue. If more people are assured access to the ballot box, Dems might never lose control of the US House & Senate & White House, simply because the GOP is unwilling to change its policies in a way that would allow them to get the majority of votes in this country. Even when Dems lose the House, and even the White House these days, they win the popular vote. And that is why the GOP is so determined to keep people from voting.

A better solution for the GOP than vote suppression: Appeal to more voters. Pretty simple.