team politics talking points.

[iturnknobs]

Who do you stand with...? Silence is cooperation.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I expect this drum beat to go on through the Nov midterm. This is the Democrat's only pony to ride and I expect they will have their burro handed to them in Nov.

I stand with the constitution... Its nice that they stood up for the capitol police officer who suffered a stroke and died of natural causes. Did anybody stand up for Ashli Babbit the unarmed protestor that was shot and killed climbing through a broken window?

Of the 725 people arrested how many people were charged with insurrection (an actual crime)?

This seems like much ado about a political protest. Remarkably few deaths and little damage compared to other protests last year.

I am a student of political strategies and this could be seen coming for a year, and they will keep flogging this thru November...

Good luck.

JR

PS: I didn't watch the TV dog and pony show, did President Biden and VP Harris say Jan 6th was worse than Watergate, worse than Pearl Harbor, or worse than 9/11? With over 200 homicides in DC last year the capitol may be a safe space.

 

[hodad]

There is nothing good to say about what you just posted here, John. That's sick.

EDIT: You need to get out of your GOP fantasy bubble and watch the video of what that protest actually looked like. You need to read about what your "Blue Lives Matter" buddies did to police officers--the injuries that some are still trying to recover from, and the mental scars that may never heal. You need to think about what they were "protesting"--a free and fair presidential election. They were protesting against democracy itself--egged on by the lying jackass who was in the Oval Office at that time.

You need to allow your beliefs to be challenged by actual empirical evidence, John. You are too eager to be told what to think by your right wing chatterboxes and far too unwilling to view the evidence and decide for yourself. If you did, you might find you don't feel so good about the party and the politicians you continue to support.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I presented facts, you are pushing subjective opinions (beliefs), and not very respectfully.

Please work on that.

JR

 

[iturnknobs]

Did anybody stand up for Ashli Babbit the unarmed protestor that was shot and killed climbing through a broken window?

Seriously? She had a gun drawn on her and climbed through the broken window to the hall leading to the house chamber. I would expect the same fate. Law and order, after all.

This seems like much ado about a political protest. Remarkably few deaths and little damage compared to other protests last year.

The Capitol building was breached by people who did not want to honor a free and fair election. Some were even trying to kill Nancy Pelosi and Mike Pence. Funny how you minimalize treason and the attempted overthrow of the government. This is not hyperbole. Property damage is nothing in comparison to the government being violently overthrown AND comparison of these situations is your silence. Blindly stand with your tribe. Even worse, you are a smart man. You see the truth and do not care.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Seriously? She had a gun drawn on her and climbed through the broken window to the hall leading to the house chamber. I would expect the same fate. Law and order, after all.

Seriously.... shooting and killing unarmed protestors is generally frowned upon.

The Capitol building was breached by people who did not want to honor a free and fair election.

Protesters are usually angry about something

Some were even trying to kill Nancy Pelosi and Mike Pence.

They were? More mind reading?

Funny how you minimalize treason and the attempted overthrow of the government.

I am not minimizing it, the DOJ charged them with....

According to the Justice Department, more than 225 defendants had been charged with assaulting, resisting, or impeding law enforcement officers; at least 275 defendants have been charged with obstructing a congressional proceeding; and about 40 defendants have been charged with some sort of conspiracy charge.

But, again, no one has been charged with sedition or insurrection. (or treason, or overthrow of the government).

This is not hyperbole.

opinions vary... this is looks exactly like political hyperbole to smear republicans ahead of the mid term election. They might even be trying to bait ex-President Trump into running again because they think they can beat him again. They should be careful what they wish for, while I wouldn't mind less ex-President Trump in our future.

Property damage is nothing in comparison to the government being violently overthrown AND comparison of these situations is your silence. Blindly stand with your tribe. Even worse, you are a smart man. You see the truth and do not care.

Again try to show a little more respect and civility.... this was not remotely a violent overthrow of the government. It appears the protestors were angry about the election and campaign running up to the elction (like millions more were/are) and probably attempted to disrupt the election confirmation. Rioters acting en mass are generally dumbasses.
=====
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell’s (R-Ky.) has promised openness to discussing election law changes. McConnell’s opened the door this week to reforming an 1887 Electoral College law. Top Republicans say there’s genuine interest within the conference for looking at the law — which outlines how Congress formally counts the Electoral College results, like it did on Jan. 6 — Changing that law could make future challenges like that protest inconsequential. Majority leader Schumer ignored the offer.
=====
For my mind reading... the Democrats appear to be trying to cut a deal with Sens. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.) on broader voting reforms (HR1) that will require them to change the legislative filibuster because they don't have 60 votes to override filibuster. They believe they have generated some political capital/momentum from this Jan 6th dog and pony show that they can capitalize on to federalize elections.

Of course opinions vary...

JR

PS; My apologies for doing my own mind reading, but these discussions are rarely only about facts.

 

[hodad]

One way to understand this is through the rhetorical form of apologia (self-defense). The common apologia strategies are denial (“it didn’t happen”), differentiation (“it happened, but it’s not what you think”), bolstering (“patriots love what happened”) and transcendence (“we should look at the bigger picture about what happened”).

You can sort of see the right going through all of those strategies as they’ve tried to revise our understanding of what happened on January 6, 2021. I see several important strategies being used.

• Conspiracy theory is being deployed as a differentiation strategy by people like Tucker Carlson. His Patriot Purge “documentary” claims what we think we know about J6 isn’t the real story.
• Denial has been used since J6. We’ve seen minimizing strategies (they were just “tourists,” they were peaceful, etc.)
• Bolstering has been used as an ad populum (“appeal to the wisdom of the crowd”) by the elite to claim that Donald Trump’s base loved that Trump fought for them.
• You see transcendence being used when the right tries to minimize what happened while claiming that Trump was a great president and that’s what is really important about his legacy.

Those are all standard apologia tactics to try to shape the narrative. You see the right attacking the media, Democrats and anyone who seeks to hold them accountable. It’s a real shame, because in so doing they are permitting and facilitating the erosion of democracy.

This is how the Republicans are whitewashing the J6 insurrection out of existence

 

[fallout]

Insurrection? LMAO..

Everyone forget about the RIOTS during the 2017 inauguration?



Dummies

I guess it's righteous anger when leftest lunatics riot?

 

[hodad]

Seriously.... shooting and killing unarmed protestors is generally frowned upon.

Ashli Babbitt had a history of violent and impulsive behavior. That shouldn't be relevant here, but how many people who portray her as a martyr have been quick to raise any blemishes in the past of less "pale" people who were shot by police officers?

I think the officer probably overreacted when he shot Babbitt (I wasn't there--can't say for sure.) She did seem emboldened by the power of her whiteness and her conservatism--that attitude of "They shoot other people--they don't shoot people like me." White privilege, on full display.

And of course the defense and beatification of Babbitt is also a glorious display of white privilege and hypocrisy--this woman was wrongly and unjustly murdered by a police officer, whereas all those other people were "thugs" and "criminals" who deserved what they got--and just coincidentally happened to be Black.

 

[hodad]

Everyone forget about the RIOTS during the 2017 inauguration?

Yes, I remember well how Hillary stoked the crowd into a seething rage and set them loose on Congress and the VP. Oh, wait.....that's not what happened, is it? Do you remember what happened? Did you bother to find out before posting this?

 

[fallout]

You work for CNN?

Leftists are allowed to RIOT and DESTROY.. I get it.. Righteous..

Let me go and be white.. Don't you have some reparations to pay, Hodad? You can pay my share too..

 

[JohnRoberts]

(and the mind reading continues, along with racial divisiveness). Good luck tying to get the silent majority to ignore their lying eyes and believe your version of what happened.
===

In politics they often accuse the opposition of doing exactly what they are doing (perhaps subconsciously).

IMO the real risk challenging our republic is the insidious cabal formed between; big technology, mass media, and the Democratic party. Media is supposed to keep our politicians honest, not openly advocate for one side.

We need to return congress to regular order rather than sleazing legislation through using reconciliation (a budget adjustment technique.) Legislation needs to be bipartisan, and use regular order.

If the democrats unwisely blow up the filibuster rule, when the pendulum swings back the other way (as soon as Nov), this will lead to equally partisan legislation leaning the other way. This would not be good for the country, we need to work together and fix multiple failing policies using bipartisan negotiation and cooperation.

JR

 

[hodad]

(and the mind reading continues, along with racial divisiveness). Good luck tying to get the silent majority to ignore their lying eyes and believe your version of what happened.
===

In politics they often accuse the opposition of doing exactly what they are doing (perhaps subconsciously).

1. Not a majority, and not silent. As I have pointed out in voting rights posts, Dems win the overall popular vote consistently--only in '04 did a Republican prez candidate win the popular vote any time in the last 2 decades. I also wish you and others would use your eyes and watch what unfolded on 1/6. Check out the dude beating a cop with a flagpole. Check out the attacks with bear spray. Check out all the crazy guys who showed up in paramilitary gear. Check out the cops being beaten with riot shields. Look at the one getting his head smashed in a door. Read the account of officer Fanone getting the crap beat out of him by a group of insurrectionists. Read the words of Trump, of those advising him, of those who organized this event and/or stirred up the sh!t. Listen to the words of the people who were actually there. You're excusing a whole lot of lies, incitement, and talk of overturning a free and fair election. Maybe you really do have lying eyes.

2. I call it the politics of projection. W Bush & co. had a real knack for it, and I don't think it was subconscious in that case. It seemed like a concerted effort to blunt criticisms that would be leveled at them by Dems--accuse the other guys (rightly or wrongly) of what you're doing to take the edge off their criticism of you. It's pretty schoolyard stuff, but it's surprisingly effective.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Rinse and repeat.... BTW have you read Alinsky R4R

Good luck in Nov.

JR

 

[Jim McKeveny]

Violent grotesquiries aside, do we accept/desire self-rule with it's inefficiencies and slop? If not, what is the alternative, and what are the guideposts?

 

[JohnRoberts]

The constitution is a pretty good guide for governance (IMO) while the American experiment is still relatively young at only a few hundred years old.

I find it interesting that NYC is talking about allowing non-citizens to vote ( in local elections ).

JR

 

[Jim McKeveny]

The constitution is a pretty good guide for governance (IMO) while the American experiment is still relatively young at only a few hundred years old.

I find it interesting that NYC is talking about allowing non-citizens to vote ( in local elections ).

JR

Individuals w/o current citizen status who wish to participate in local governance should be allowed. No?

As far as the constitution as guide well, yes...but even the Golden Rule gets subject to parsing.

 

[Matador]

Violent grotesquiries aside, do we accept/desire self-rule with it's inefficiencies and slop? If not, what is the alternative, and what are the guideposts?

In America, our guideposts are motorized, and can be shifted to fit whomever is currently in office.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Individuals w/o current citizen status who wish to participate in local governance should be allowed. No?

As far as the constitution as guide well, yes...but even the Golden Rule gets subject to parsing.

The NY State constitution specifically stipulates that... "the state constitution, Article 2, Section 1, grants the right to vote in all elections to “every citizen” 18 years of age or older." I guess you could read that to include citizens of other countries.

This is absurd, but seems like the new normal for politics these days. The new mayor, that I have high hopes for is trying to walk both sides of the street regarding this issue. I suspect he is juggling multiple knives with the progressive DA, so needs to pick his fights wisely.

We have far greater concerns to worry about than this (no, I won't share my list).

IMO this is only interesting in how far the pendulum has swung from only property owners being allowed to vote.

JR

 

[hodad]

The NY State constitution specifically stipulates that... "the state constitution, Article 2, Section 1, grants the right to vote in all elections to “every citizen” 18 years of age or older." I guess you could read that to include citizens of other countries.

JR

It is, I think, a recognition of the reality of life in NYC. There are lots of people who have been there a long time but who are voiceless in the political process. And it's probably fair to say that the bulk of these folks are more attuned to their life in NY than to the doings in their native countries. Ignoring legal issues, does it seem right or fair that someone who may have lived in the city since early childhood is voteless, while someone moving from North Dakota can be registered & voting after a month's residence?

I do have some hesitations about the law, but I'm not diametrically opposed.