team politics talking points.

[hodad]

The American Taliban have won

The war in Ukraine has made me notice a lot of similarities between Putin and America's Right--that longing for a much-nostalgized, supposedly better past, and a willingness to do whatever it takes to get it "back". In the US so far that means forsaking the democratic ideals they claim to be returning to; in Russia it may mean long-term structural and economic damage to the country (along with all the legal and cultural oppression)--or much worse.

 

[living sounds]

The war in Ukraine has made me notice a lot of similarities between Putin and America's Right--that longing for a much-nostalgized, supposedly better past, and a willingness to do whatever it takes to get it back. In the US so far that means forsaking the democratic ideals they claim to be returning to; in Russia it may mean long-term structural and economic damage to the country (along with all the legal and cultural oppression)--or much worse.

To be fair, nostalgia is everywhere. It just takes on different shapes in different places / demographics etc.

 

[living sounds]

Biased much? Doesn't Germany have some big problems of its own to address?

Whataboutisms again?

The unprecedented upward shift of wealth during the pandemic, enabled by Democrat governors, tech oligarchs, and unelected bureaucrats, is the kind of thing that leads to Feudalism and the new Dark Ages. Your vision needs some correction in my opinion.

Well, if you look at the bigger picture the turning of the tide of wealth transfer was more than 40 years ago. The intention was clearly announced before and has since been followed through.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_F._Powell_Jr.#Powell_Memorandum,_1971
It seems you have been led to blame the wrong side, mostly. The Democrats (again, the way you use the word makes it a deliberate epitaph) are not free of blame, but the dismantling of American democracy has largely been engineered elsewhere.

 

[Matador]

The American Taliban have won - for now. But - oh the backlash down the road to this right wing overreach will be something for the history books. The overwhelming majority of US citizens does not want to live in the Dark Ages.

And to think here on this very board we were accused of using Roe v. Wade to "fear-monger" over the Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, and Barrett nominations. And since I was right then, I'll make another bold prediction: Obergefell will be next, followed by Loving v Virginia, then Griswold v. Connecticut.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Whataboutisms again?

Weak defense again. Your double standard was revealed. Why are you concerned with what's happening in my country when your own has so many problems?

Well, if you look at the bigger picture the turning of the tide of wealth transfer was more than 40 years ago. The intention was clearly announced before and has since been followed through.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_F._Powell_Jr.#Powell_Memorandum,_1971
It seems you have been led to blame the wrong side, mostly. The Democrats (again, the way you use the word makes it a deliberate epitaph) are not free of blame, but the dismantling of American democracy has largely been engineered elsewhere.

As I've stated before, I've voted for Democrats, Republicans, and Independents during my 38 years of adulthood. I've never joined any party and likely never will.

I have seen the decline of classical liberal ideals in the Democrat party during my lifetime. NAFTA was a big loser for American jobs. Giving China most favored nation status was wrong. Politicians from both sides have helped bring about many bad policies, but in the past decade it is the Democrats who have done the most damage and who are pushing policies that will wreak havoc for decades to come.

 

[living sounds]

Weak defense again. Your double standard was revealed. Why are you concerned with what's happening in my country when your own has so many problems?

I care for people, not countries, tribes, classes etc.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I don't speak for JR, but encourage anyone who buys a gun to get some training. I guess you're a big NRA supporter since they, by far, provide the most training to US gun owners (including law enforcement officers). I would note that none of Bloomberg's "guns safety" organizations provide any training at all. Nor do the other big gun control groups (Brady, Giffords, etc.).

I have never been a NRA supporter but do advocate for proper gun safety training. We all wish Alec Baldwin and the crew around him on that movie set had some basic gun safety awareness. I grew up with a rifle in the house, mostly used for killing varmints (like ground hogs) who trashed my mother's garden. From a very young age we had gun safety drummed into us.

Later I had a job where they issued me a fully automatic assault weapon (M16) with sufficient training.

Personal gun ownership remains a contentious issue. It might be easier to argue against gun ownership if the police and justice system effectively disarmed criminals who are often just kids. Kids are often used by gangs for gun crime to avoid harsher adult punishments. There was just gunfire at a festival in Jackson MS, not far from me. The shooter, something like a 15 YO kid was killed by the police.

We seem to experiencing a dystopian reality and some people still argue to defund the police, and not prosecute violent criminals. This isn't rocket science but still seems hard for some people to understand.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

The legality must be addressed by the Legislature, not the Judiciary as it has no clear Constitutional backing. If it isn't covered by Federal law, it is left to the states or the people to decide. That is the correct Constitutional view. Stop pushing bogus boogeyman theories about a government you don't understand.

as often correctamundo...
===
The unlawful leak of a secret work document from SCOTUS is having the intended(?) effect of stirring up the partisan debate, and effectively changing the subject from the shopping list of recent bad news. I can't read their minds but a fair supposition is that they want to stir up public opposition to influence the justices and perhaps change their decisions that aren't finalized yet. This is damaging to the court but not surprising in light of the attacks on all of government and respected establishments. Let's see how vigorously DOJ pursues this criminal act.

====
Abortion is likewise a very contentious issue (coincidence, I think not). I will have to be careful about my pronoun usage. I strongly advise caution about blindly accepting hyperbolic political arguments (we are already hearing them).

I won't insult you by stating the extremes of this argument both impractical. That said thinking people must search out a sensible middle ground that balances the needs of everybody involved. Kicking this back to the states to decide seems practical. Federal law this important should probably become an amendment (a pretty high hurdle.)

The science of in utero human development has advanced dramatically since 1973 so a thoughtful revisit has lots of new science to follow.

I can't predict the future with any certainty but expect a vigorous political debate leading into this mid term election. Most voters will decide based on only one or two issues so these old favorites will get run up the flagpole again.

Buckle up and enjoy the ride...

JR

 

[hodad]

The unlawful leak of a secret work document from SCOTUS is having the intended(?) effect of stirring up the partisan debate, and effectively changing the subject from the shopping list of recent bad news. I can't read their minds but a fair supposition is that they want to stir up public opposition to influence the justices and perhaps change their decisions that aren't finalized yet.

But still it's impossible to know from which side this came. There are motives on both sides, certainly. If I were looking for folks willing to engage in

attacks on all of government and respected establishments

I'd first cast my glance rightward.

***********************************************************************************************************************************
EDIT: Interesting point from someone who clerked at SCOTUS: If you work inside the Court, you know that the most concrete impact of the leak is to lock in this opinion essentially as is. Any edits at this point reveal jockeying between Justices, undermine the majority, and Court itself. Embarassing to the majority.

Considering rumblings in the WSJ a week ago that Roberts has been working on a couple of the court's rw extremist justices, that might suggest that someone on the far right was interested in locking the opinion down as-is--no softening or alteration.

scotus clerk

(Also, this notion of a conservative leak lines up quite neatly with the almost instantaneous responses of conservatives like overeducated @ssclown Josh Hawley, who insisted that the decision should be handed down as Alito wrote it because of that horrible libruhl leak!!!!!! Hmmm.....Was somebody afraid one of the court's "Federalists" might go soft on 'em before the decision was finalized? )

 

[hodad]

This refers to the father of the Mississippi lawyer leading the charge against Roe:

By that point, Bill had turned the farm — known as the Galena Plantation — into one of the country’s premier quail hunting destinations, a favorite retreat of the late Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. Visitors had the option to stay in the original home of Nathan Bedford Forrest, a Confederate general and the first grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, which Bill transported 40 miles and, according to the Fitch Farms website, restored "to its former glory.”

Don't ever tell me racism isn't alive and well in this country--Jesus. That's your home state, JR--turning the home of the first grand wizard of the KKK into a tourist attraction for rich racist jackasses. Disgusting.
The woman who could bring down Roe v. Wade

 

[JohnRoberts]

stop trolling me

 

[hodad]

stop trolling me

Just making a point. You're the guy with the MLK quote attached to your posts--maybe you should open your eyes to the world that surrounds you.

 

[JohnRoberts]

MLK was a great man with great wisdom..

please stop trolling me

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Just making a point. You're the guy with the MLK quote attached to your posts--maybe you should open your eyes to the world that surrounds you.

How do you feel about the late Senator Robert Byrd and Joe Biden's long friendship with him? What of Biden's own questionable judgement on race in America? Do you think it productive to drag all manner of old ghosts and skeletons into every argument you lose?

 

[AnalogPackrat]

The war in Ukraine has made me notice a lot of similarities between Putin and America's Right--that longing for a much-nostalgized, supposedly better past, and a willingness to do whatever it takes to get it "back". In the US so far that means forsaking the democratic ideals they claim to be returning to; in Russia it may mean long-term structural and economic damage to the country (along with all the legal and cultural oppression)--or much worse.

Isn't it the Democrats who long for a time when unions ran the working class and when executive pay was lower? Or when indigenous people controlled the American continents? Or when the human population was small and people lived "close to the earth?"

As a person who lived in area dominated by blue-think and who leaned that way in his "youth," I see it quite differently. The very things that made this country great are the things the new left wants to destroy. Freedom of speech (and therefore thought/action), freedom from large and intrusive government, respect for the individual (the liberty/responsibility dual), right of self-protection, judging people by the content of their character, not their skin tone, and many other core values are under constant pressure from your side. I hardly recognize the Democrats anymore. They've become the angry authoritarians they claimed to hate.

Meanwhile the conservatives still place a high value on these things and many have come to recognize the damage done by mass off-shoring of manufacturing and other jobs, the value of basic environmental responsibility, and that judging people by their words and deeds, not their ethnicity or skin color is the enlightened way.

 

[living sounds]

You do recognize those Republicans whose pornstar-xxxxing rich-heir-real-estate-crook President instigated his terrorist followers carrying weapons and DIY bombs to assault the Capitol? After he lost the election, fair and square? Please take a step back, blink and look again. Because one eye appears to be blind here.

 

[hodad]

sn't it the Democrats who long for a time when unions ran the working class and when executive pay was lower? Or when indigenous people controlled the American continents? Or when the human population was small and people lived "close to the earth?"

1. sure, but I'll get to that.
2. No.
3. No.

The very things that made this country great

You could make an argument that certain great things were done during the era of labor-abusing robber barons, and we seem to have returned to that. However, it's worth noting that those labor-abusing robber barons' actions led directly to the rise of labor unions. So I guess as robber barons return and income inequity rises, it's not necessarily just nostalgia that is bringing back labor unions.

mass off-shoring of manufacturing

Oh, wait, which president just put up funding to jump start US-based semiconductor manufacturing? And which president promised infrastructure spending but never delivered? And which president actually delivered?

 

[AnalogPackrat]

You do recognize those Republicans whose pornstar-xxxxing rich-heir-real-estate-crook President instigated his terrorist followers carrying weapons and DIY bombs to assault the Capitol? After he lost the election, fair and square? Please take a step back, blink and look again. Because one eye appears to be blind here.

How many weapons charges were made against the Jan 6 protesters? How many charges of insurrection? I'll wait. For the record, I think that the minority who went into the Capitol Building were wrong-headed. And those who broke windows and forced their way in and fought with LEO should be charged with appropriate offenses. Those that entered doors that were opened from the inside and did no damage are innocent of wrong-doing.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

1. sure, but I'll get to that.
2. No.
3. No.


You could make an argument that certain great things were done during the era of labor-abusing robber barons, and we seem to have returned to that. However, it's worth noting that those labor-abusing robber barons' actions led directly to the rise of labor unions. So I guess as robber barons return and income inequity rises, it's not necessarily just nostalgia that is bringing back labor unions.

I'm well aware of the reasons for the origin of labor unions and also their current corruption to the detriment of the workers they "represent." by returning robber barons are you talking about Jeff Bezos?

Oh, wait, which president just put up funding to jump start US-based semiconductor manufacturing? And which president promised infrastructure spending but never delivered? And which president actually delivered?

Which president was stymied by a crybaby opposition congress focused on wild-eyed (Schiff) Russian conspiracy theories and non-existant pee tapes for years? Trump is a jerk and a blow-hard, but he did get some things done and improved the lot of most Americans by 2019, something Obama couldn't manage in 8 years (I voted for him and was sorely disappointed). Now that's all gone and we have near double digit inflation, ongoing supply chain problems, an open southern border, record crime increases, record drug overdoses, and only plans to make things worse with more government spending and regulation. You should be so proud.

Also, government funding (a-la Solyndra) is not the best way to address bringing manufacturing back to our shores. Figure it out.

 

[JohnRoberts]

aren't you guys getting tired of rolling in the mud yet?

JR