the new "only" Covid thread

[cyrano]

Yes, that's what my mind tells me after trying to grok your words...

 

[JohnRoberts]

Read my mind but if you can't do a better job, maybe keep it to yourself.

I don't care much about what you think of me, I do care what you write about me.

JR

 

[cyrano]

It was a question, John. Sigh.

So, to repeat it, "Do you think annual combined COVID/flu shots are a bad thing?"

 

[scott2000]

Was just looking up some bad things....

Your car is full of ants...lol...that would suck..

 

[JohnRoberts]

It was a question, John. Sigh.

The technical term for that logical fallacy is a "loaded question" like "do you still beat your wife"? (Sigh )

So, to repeat it, "Do you think annual combined COVID/flu shots are a bad thing?"

The concept of a combo vaccine does not seem bad. The drug makers have been talking about this for years.

I can imagine ways it could be mismanaged.

JR

 

[Script]

Never heard of Myl9 protein.

Japanese Asahi newspaper published about research on heightened levels of Myl9 found in patients with more severe symptoms. This could serve, they hope, as an easy to test indicator for severity of symptoms, need of hospitalisation etc to be expected.

https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14697279
And a scientific paper abstract related to this is here.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35895716/

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Dr. John Campbell reviews recent Lancet article on Covid origins.

 

[cyrano]

I have no similar data for other countries. Do you have links?

https://adamtooze.substack.com/p/chartbook-148-life-liberty-and-the

 

[AnalogPackrat]

https://adamtooze.substack.com/p/chartbook-148-life-liberty-and-the

That is more data for the USA. Interesting, but not what I was looking for (excess deaths over the last decade or three for other countries).

As for the "zero Covid policy" and life in China in general...I'd rather live a shorter life with liberty than a longer one in an oppressive, totalitarian surveillance state. It's back to "I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees."

 

[cyrano]

That is more data for the USA. Interesting, but not what I was looking for (excess deaths over the last decade or three for other countries).

There are several sources in the article...

As for the "zero Covid policy" and life in China in general...I'd rather live a shorter life with liberty than a longer one in an oppressive, totalitarian surveillance state.

I presume the Chinese party knows something we don't?

The balance isn't easy. Keeping things as small as possible, works. But it sometimes isn't possible in view of a global market and global politics.

As long as we keep seeing only two parties, there isn't much chance of de-escalating.

It's back to "I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees."

I have to agree, I'm afraid

 

[AnalogPackrat]

There are several sources in the article...

The article describes life expectancy, not excess deaths. The only other country specifically mentioned, "England and Wales," isn't even a whole country (why exclude Scotland and N. Ireland?). It looks like every developed country has had their average life expectancy roll off. Not surprising, but not what I asked about.

I presume the Chinese party knows something we don't?

How to dominate and control their population by fear and force. The west is learning, unfortunately.

The balance isn't easy. Keeping things as small as possible, works. But it sometimes isn't possible in view of a global market and global politics.

BS. We've discussed this before.

As long as we keep seeing only two parties, there isn't much chance of de-escalating.

Unrelated. Irrelevant.

I have to agree, I'm afraid

Why are you afraid of freedom? Is it because other people will also have it and not do what you would want them to do?

 

[cyrano]

Why are you afraid of freedom? Is it because other people will also have it and not do what you would want them to do?

I'm only afraid of the kind of freedom that comes at the cost of suppressing other people elsewhere...

Just like respect, freedom is not given. It's earned.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

I'm only afraid of the kind of freedom that comes at the cost of suppressing other people elsewhere...

That has nothing to do with freedom.

Just like respect, freedom is not given. It's earned.

Freedom is the natural state of humans and must be protected. If lost it can be regained, but usually at a higher cost in blood, sweat, and tears. Respect is not like freedom.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I'm only afraid of the kind of freedom that comes at the cost of suppressing other people elsewhere...

this does not make sense.

Freedom is indivisible, and when one man is enslaved, all are not free.

Just like respect, freedom is not given. It's earned.

Freedom is often won by fighting off oppression, and only maintained by rule of law that protects individual rights (like our constitution).

That has nothing to do with freedom.


Freedom is the natural state of humans and must be protected. If lost it can be regained, but usually at a higher cost in blood, sweat, and tears. Respect is not like freedom.

I am not sure it is the natural state (read the "Lord of the Flies" for a fictional account of unrestricted human nature.)

It requires effort and wisdom to preserve our hard won freedoms.

We appear to be actively moving toward a dystopian future right before our eyes for no good reason that I can think of. I remain optimistic but concerned.

JR

 

[cyrano]

this does not make sense.

My freedom ends where another man's freedom begins...

 

[JohnRoberts]

My freedom ends where another man's freedom begins...

I am not familiar with that turn of phrase.

It's very common for the rights of one person to conflict with the rights of another. In those cases you have to weigh the rights of one person against the other's, and come up with a solution.

or

There is another one that is said by U.S. Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr in a more poetic way: "Your Liberty To Swing Your Fist Ends Just Where My Nose Begins." Both these phrases describe what freedom essentially mean.

This gets into the definition of freedom or liberty being constrained by not restricting another's freedom/liberty. This is esoteric but interesting to chew on.

JR

 

[user 41968]

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...roquine-hundreds-thousands-died-result-video/

Steve Deace asked Dr. Risch what was the biggest lie of the last 29 months of COVID pandemic. Dr. Risch says it was the lies about hydroxychloroquine in treating COVID 19. The FDA hid the evidence that HCQ was effective in the early treatment of the disease. Hundreds of thousands of people died as a result of this lie. The CDC-FDA officials promoted the questionable experimental vaccines instead and this helped Big Pharma make billions.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

I am not familiar with that turn of phrase.

I'm disappointed, JR...

“Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others.”
--Thomas Jefferson

or



This gets into the definition of freedom or liberty being constrained by not restricting another's freedom/liberty. This is esoteric but interesting to chew on.

Not an esoteric concept. Basic.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I apparently disappoint a lot of people. I'm old but I didn't know Thomas Jefferson personally. I did read the Federalist papers but didn't commit it to memory.

That quote is apparently from a letter between him and Tiffany in 1819... it continues with "I do not add ‘within the limits of the law’; because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual.
===
I can see how a woman's liberty to have a late term abortion infringes on the liberty of the unborn to prosper.

Of course the details of insuring everybody's rights is a monumental task.
==

I am not sure I grok the meaning of that quote in the context of this thread, but it wouldn't be the first time, or the last.

JR

 

[hodad]

I can see how a woman's liberty to have a late term abortion

1. I typically avoid this thread because the signal to noise on COVID has gone significantly downhill here.

2. I pop in to find discussion of abortion?

3. Outside of cases of health and safety of the mother, who is advocating for late term abortions?

4. Is your comment anything more than misdirection from the actual laws that have been put in place since Dobbs, and a misdirection from the actual position of the GOP?