the new "only" Covid thread

[AnalogPackrat]

Really?

So you have an opinion on a clinical diagnosis that you have no qualifications to make.

What clinical diagnosis are you talking about? We were discussing the need for "regular testing," were we not?

That tells me everything about your level of intelligence on this argument.

If you have some other reason for regular testing I would be interested to know what it is?

Although I was not agreeing with you, I thought you were giving a good fight against Cyrano in his argument. But with above, it all turned out to be a noise coming out of an empty tin. What a disappointment.

I didn't consider my interaction with cyrano a fight. I am reading the paper he linked which is interesting.

I am done here.

Your choice, of course. I'm baffled by what you seem to have expected.

 

[scott2000]

It would be more informative to look at trends in age group distribution.

Doesn't help when they breakdown ages in groups of 18-64 yo like in Illinois.

https://dph.illinois.gov/covid19/vaccine/vaccine-breakthrough.html

 

[cyrano]

Meanwhile, the lab leak theory is still lingering. Here's a write up from a source some of you might find less than ideal, The Intercept:

https://theintercept.com/2022/05/06/deconstructed-lab-leak-covid-katherine-eban/
It confirms a few things I read way back at the beginning of the pandemic. I discussed the paper by 4 scientists from India with virologists and they agreed, but didn't want to spend time on it then as other matters were far more urgent. That paper vanished soon after. It wasn't retracted, one day it was just gone.

 

[JohnRoberts]

This is only peripherally about covid but China has censored the WHO chief for saying that China's zero Covid policy is unsustainable.It pretty obviously isn't working well.

JR

 

[cyrano]

Censorship is far from unusual in China. And China already wasn't too happy with WHO. They bruteforced one of their own in there, I seem to remember. Or was that Interpol?

 

[JohnRoberts]

The WHO has pretty much been compliant with China's wishes, there are rumors that Xi maybe losing public support due to mishandling covid lockdowns. Of course I cannot predict future events.

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

I find this clip from ~30+ years ago fascinating.

https://michaelyon.locals.com/upost/2134206/listen-to-fauci-he-told-some-truth

 

[Script]

What's it about? Why do you find it fascinating ? Fascinate us with a short description -- could you -- so we want to click and listen and be fascinated too---

 

[AnalogPackrat]

It's less than 30 seconds long. I promise it won't hurt you to view it. It's Dr. Fauci. Make your own judgements.

 

[Script]

Spam followed by ad ? Does Fauci talk about Covid there ?

 

[Matador]

Script, if you'd like to view the full context of what he said, rather than a 30-second clip, it comes from the 1999 PBS NOVA special titled, "Surviving AIDS".



The lead-up to that clip was a discussion about how, at the time, nobody had developed a vaccine against a retro-virus like AIDS, and many thought that such a vaccine was impossible, as all of the typical methods that worked with other viruses hadn't worked with HIV infections. His quote was in the context of earlier discussions about the push for "experimental" vaccines, with patients "stepping into the unknown" and "putting their lives on the line".

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Script, if you'd like to view the full context of what he said, rather than a 30-second clip, it comes from the 1999 PBS NOVA special titled, "Surviving AIDS".



The lead-up to that clip was a discussion about how, at the time, nobody had developed a vaccine against a retro-virus like AIDS, and many thought that such a vaccine was impossible, as all of the typical methods that worked with other viruses hadn't worked with HIV infections. His quote was in the context of earlier discussions about the push for "experimental" vaccines, with patients "stepping into the unknown" and "putting their lives on the line".

I think the similarities to our current situation are apparent with regard to experimental vaccines. I'm sure you disagree.

 

[Matador]

If you mean to conflate coronavirus vaccines, first theorized in 1968, with the first clinical trial in 1975, and the first company founded in the early nineties, with over 12,000 published studies in Pubmed and other leading journals, citing over 7000 clinical trials between 1984 and 2015, as being the same as "experimental" in the context of nobody having even a clue as to how to develop a vaccine for a virus theorized as "uncurable" 20 years ago, then yes, they are exactly similar to the current situation. Even Fauci's theoretical "12 years in the future" already passed close to 25 years ago. Unless the argument now is "What about 50 years in the future?" By such standards even aspirin is "experimental". The fact that all the context was clipped out speaks volumes to the intentions of the creator.

Opinions vary, of course.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

The context was clearly stated in text to be the HIV vaccine. Regarding your other "facts," the reality remains that mRNA vaccines are very new and have never been used on a large number of people until we injected half of humanity with them. Remember their use in the USA has only been under EUA.

Studying something for a long time does not automatically make it safe for all of humanity.

 

[JohnRoberts]

The context was clearly stated in text to be the HIV vaccine. Regarding your other "facts," the reality remains that mRNA vaccines are very new and have never been used on a large number of people until we injected half of humanity with them. Remember their use in the USA has only been under EUA.

Studying something for a long time does not automatically make it safe for all of humanity.

That horse has clearly left the barn, so now we can watch for unintended consequences... or not...

JR

 

[cyrano]

I think the similarities to our current situation are apparent with regard to experimental vaccines. I'm sure you disagree.

AIDS is very different from COVID. You can't get AIDS from your neighbor, unless you have sex with them or get their blood transfused.

You can get COVID from anyone infected just by passing them.

A world of difference. Not similar at all.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

AIDS is very different from COVID. You can't get AIDS from your neighbor, unless you have sex with them or get their blood transfused.

You can get COVID from anyone infected just by passing them.

A world of difference. Not similar at all.

I was speaking about the vaccines, not the diseases. Most people can acquire natural immunity to COVID, but not HIV. Neither disease warrants mass scale experimentation and yet that is exactly what has occured these past 18 months.

 

[cyrano]

We don't know if there is "natural" immunity to HIV. There have been at least a dozen* reports about people that should've had HIV, but never developed it. Read "should have" in a statistical sense.

Research in that field is still ongoing, but at a very slow pace. Just like they are still looking for people with natural immunity to COVID. In both cases, it's like looking for the needle in the haystack, as people with natural immunity are very rare. In the case of AIDS, the research is being done in exploited communities (read: forced prostitution), which makes it even harder.

In the case of AIDS, you can't "experiment" at all, since AIDS renders the entire immunity system inoperable. COVID just attacks your lungs, in general. And, again, AIDS can be easily avoided. You can't avoid COVID in the long run.

Only newborns have no or very little natural immunity**. The rest of us have a lot of natural immunity for an incredible number of diseases in our immune system. That's why a disease that takes down the immune system is very serious, as you could die from a simple cold.

It's also not a simple black and white thing. People with sickle cell disease, for instance, have natural immunity for Malaria. The reason is that having sickle cells amongst your red blood cells gives our immune system the time to respond to Malaria. In healthy people, the Malaria parasite reproduces so fast, that by the time the immune system gets to work, it's too late. The parasite has reproduced and changed so much, the immune system doesn't know what to fight and starts attacking other cells. That's also the reason why Malaria causes chronic very high fever. Malaria can't attach to the sickle cells, so it develops at a much slower pace and changes much less, so our immune system effectively kills it after a while. There's still fever, but much less and only once.

And even when these people with natural immunity are found and scientists are able to find the DNA sequence that provides it, it isn't certain it's possible to introduce that DNA sequence to others. It might have other repercussions, fi.

*Take into account I've read about this years ago and my memory is less than perfect these days.
**Scientists suspect there is some form of natural immunity inherited in our DNA. AFAIK, that hasn't been researched widely, so it's just a theory.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

The vast majority of unvaccinated people will develop a robust immune response to COVID as has already been shown in the data. I'm not talking about genetic immunity, but the normal and natural way the human immune system responds, learns, and remembers many pathogens. That coupled with the (typical) viral mutation toward decreasing severity means we're likely headed to another OC-43 scenario and a new "common cold" virus.

 

[cyrano]

The "normal and natural" way people acquire immunity is genetic. The first part is probably inherited through our DNA, the rest is stored in our DNA.

There's nothing new about RNA vaccines, we just learned a new way of producing them.