The ugly truth about solar farms

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JohnRoberts said:
I don't think this is completely factual... While government purchases supported a lot of early electronic development, not to mention military purchases to support the war efforts (more electronics for WWII). The history of electronic component development includes multiple private companies ranging from IBM, to intel and texas instruments (and much smaller companies).
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Well, who do you think was the first and major buyer of these companies? Not only for military but also for civil government use as well as the space program. All build on the shoulders of basic research carried out by taxpayer founded public universities.

I will - again - recommend this book, although their ideology will surely prevent many people from actually reading it and learning from it:

https://marianamazzucato.com/books/the-entrepreneurial-state/
 
You're probably a big ben garrison fan? Or are his comics too based in reality for you
 
This thread started off by claiming someone that someone spoke to knows a person that said "oh now that solar farms are there, the land is poisoned" because they "leak" something? And then concrete is bad? But only solar farm concrete?

If you want to just go on the internet and get mad at people and argue, obviously I can't stop you, but why do we have to do it here
 
I live in a rural area. Before I moved here in 2021 I lived in another rural area for 22 years. I guess maybe I have a different valid perspective on things than urban/suburban types. My neighbors mostly feel the same way.

I was a member of the Sierra Club for many years before the green movement went off the rails. I still consider myself environmentally conscious, but rather than trying to control others by shaming or voting for government to do it by proxy, I make pragmatic choices in my own life (like adding insulation to my house, installing LED lights, upgrading HVAC to more efficient units, growing fruit and vegetables on my land, maintaining 8-10 acres of healthy mixed forest, and planting more native trees in open areas left by previous owners). Yesterday I spent an hour in the oppressive heat working to remove a patch of invasive Japanese stiltgrass here.

When I remodeled my previous house I spent extra to improve insulation, built 2x6 exterior walls where possible (for R19 vs R14), added radiant barrier where feasible, and put in expensive efficient windows. That property was 37 acres of mature mixed forest with a few old growth redwoods and hundreds of 100 year old second growth.

I don't know who Ben Garrison is. As with several others, you've missed the points made regarding land use, concrete, and the rest. I ask you, what have you done directly to improve the environment?
 
AnalogPackrat said:
what have you done directly to improve the environment?
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Umm, what does this have to do with solar panels leaking (or not leaking) toxic chemicals, or even the amount of concrete generated by the use of solar panels? There is a button that allows you to start a new thread if you don't want to talk about the topic at hand on this one.
 
living sounds said:
Well, who do you think was the first and major buyer of these companies? Not only for military but also for civil government use as well as the space program.
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isn't that what I said?
living sounds said:
All build on the shoulders of basic research carried out by taxpayer founded public universities.
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I am not ignoring the contribution of publicly funded research, but private industry and individual contributions deserve credit too. I was awarded 9 utility patents for my inventions, none were funded by government grants, but most were employment related.

I have watched the government waste massive amounts of capital trying to realize superior new technology, like battery or whatever, hopeful thinking du jour, excites the central planners.
living sounds said:
I will - again - recommend this book, although their ideology will surely prevent many people from actually reading it and learning from it:

https://marianamazzucato.com/books/the-entrepreneurial-state/
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"Entrepreneurial-state" sounds like an oxymoron. 🤔 Over my lifetime I have founded a handful of small businesses. Thanks to modern technology we should be in a golden age of small business formation. While government regulation remains a source of friction slowing that engine of economic growth.

JR
 
JohnRoberts said:
Thanks to modern technology we should be in a golden age of small business formation.
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Apparently we are (this is from the US Chamber of Commerce, a conservative organization):

Based on SBA's definition, there are 33.2 million small businesses in America, which account for 99.9% of all U.S. firms.

Small businesses are credited with just under two-thirds (63%) of the new jobs created from 1995 to 2021 or 17.3 million new jobs. Small businesses represent 97.3% of all exporters and 32.6% of known export value ($413.3 billion). They also employ almost half (46%) of America's private sector workforce and represent 43.5% of gross domestic product.

The internet, for all its many faults, is an excellent resource for discovering if your opinions align with actual facts. Which sort of circles back to the original post.
 
hodad said:
Umm, what does this have to do with solar panels leaking (or not leaking) toxic chemicals, or even the amount of concrete generated by the use of solar panels? There is a button that allows you to start a new thread if you don't want to talk about the topic at hand on this one.
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Ask Dreams. His derailing rants were what I responded to.
 
hodad said:
Apparently we are (this is from the US Chamber of Commerce, a conservative organization):

Based on SBA's definition, there are 33.2 million small businesses in America, which account for 99.9% of all U.S. firms.
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A simple count of companies is mostly meaningless. Many/most are sole proprietor/independent contractor or someone's side hustle.

hodad said:
Small businesses are credited with just under two-thirds (63%) of the new jobs created from 1995 to 2021 or 17.3 million new jobs. Small businesses represent 97.3% of all exporters and 32.6% of known export value ($413.3 billion). They also employ almost half (46%) of America's private sector workforce and represent 43.5% of gross domestic product.
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Where's the data for 2022-23? And "jobs created" is crazy without the corollary "jobs lost" numbers. I remember all the jobs created during the dotcom boom that disappeared by 2001. How many of those 17.3M jobs still exist? How does this 1995-2021 period compare to 1968-1994? Seems to me that many small businesses of 40+ years ago are gone, replaced by big box stores, Amazon, etc.

hodad said:
The internet, for all its many faults, is an excellent resource for discovering if your opinions align with actual facts. Which sort of circles back to the original post.
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Only when the facts are presented without skew or "curation" (censorship).
 
cyrano said:
And that's important how, exactly?
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Because it results in very large numbers of companies, but doesn't say anything about numbers of employees (or more importantly, employment rate). Ant to JR's question, a set of data from 26 years of the relatively current era without any comparison to other eras doesn't show anything.

cyrano said:
Or it's just an example of "adjust the data to support my view"?
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Try harder to reason through the argument.
 
AnalogPackrat said:
Because it results in very large numbers of companies, but doesn't say anything about numbers of employees (or more importantly, employment rate).
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So you adjust the numbers so they would adjust to what you think?

I know several project mgmt freelancers personally who have no employees, yet they created employment. Sometimes even a lot of it. I can also imagine several other ways how very small one-person companies seem to control huge capitals. Etc.
 
cyrano said:
So you adjust the numbers so they would adjust to what you think?
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No, I try to see the actual bigger picture by understanding the limitations of oversimplified (or curated) data. No comparative data was provided in the post to which I responded.

cyrano said:
I know several project mgmt freelancers personally who have no employees, yet they created employment. Sometimes even a lot of it. I can also imagine several other ways how very small one-person companies seem to control huge capitals. Etc.
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I was an independent engineering contractor for a couple of years of my career. Project managers (freelance or otherwise) don't create employment. The company that has the project that needs to be managed creates the employment by hiring workers to do the work. In general, increasing economic activity begets more economic activity.
 
Well, cultural differences perhaps?

Over here, if you have a project, you hire a project manager to develop your plans. It's up to the PM to propose third parties to get the job done. That means the PM has to weigh some details, like "locally manufactured" or "imported". Is the extra price for local products and the extra pressure on local govt it brings worth the budget?

Still, nobody came up with an answer to the question "which dangerous components are in solar cells". So I'll have to class it under "FUD".

Oh, and BTW, the first organic (another ill-defined US word) reported 20% efficiency in tests. Yes, yes, efficiency is also an undefined word in this case.
 

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