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As usual, I have nothing useful to add. I just wanted to mention how much I enjoy reading and learning about the history of technology. Gives me more perspective of how we get here from there. Thanks for the effort and generosity.
 
[quote author="soundguy"]I thought the whole point of this was to help the guy build something. [/quote]

Long way from that prospect, study the best of the past, then *maybe* build something.

However, people may come upon a used piece that they get for free or are lucky enough to pick up someplace for a song, so having an informational base could be helpful in that event.

And it's just plain fun to examine the details of these valve mixers.

NewYorkDave, thanks for clearing that bit of Frank Sinatra recording history up, but didn't I also read somewhere that some of Frank's LA recordings were tracked with only two or three mics?
Am I wrong about that?

Re: the pan pots...I suppose they were unus. (not always standard) for some of the valve mixers, and that it was more typical to use circuits like that found in the Ampex MX-10/Mx-35 where you choose only one channel. Your explanation of how the bus was used in the Frank S. recordings is most enlightening, thanks again NewYorkDave. :grin:
 
Links and comments stolen from the other thread:

[Note: I'm trying to combine all the links in one place, I apologise for any duplicates, I will come back and clean it up when I have more time, hope you all understand :grin: ]


Langevin console wiring and layout diagrams, courtesy of "Vintage Pro Audio."
http://vintageproaudio.com/Doc+Schematics/langevinwiring1.jpg
http://vintageproaudio.com/Doc+Schematics/langevinwiring2.jpg
http://vintageproaudio.com/Doc+Schematics/langevinlayout.jpg

A block diagram of a Bill Putnam custom console.
http://groupdiy.twin-x.com/albums/userpics/10031/PutCon1.pdf

Photos of a Universal Audio console (lifted from an eBay auction):
http://groupdiy.twin-x.com/thumbnails.php?album=57

A detailed description of David Sarser's custom console, built circa 1960 for his NYC recording studio.
http://reevesaudio.com/studiothree.html

PRR's mirror of the scan of the monumental Radiotron Designer's Handbook (aka "the big red book"). Chapter 18 offer a summary of the audio mixer technology of the early '50s.
http://headfonz.rutgers.edu/RDH4/


http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HEO/is_29_7/ai_n14709294

http://www.triodeel.com/al1567a.gif

http://clarkhuckaby.com/BogenMod/MxmMain.html

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=2348&highlight=%2Amixer%2A

http://recordist.com/ampex/schematics/mx35man/

http://vintageproaudio.com/Doc+Schematics/langevinwiring1.jpg
http://vintageproaudio.com/Doc+Schematics/langevinwiring2.jpg

...and Langevin's suggestions for panel layout:

http://vintageproaudio.com/Doc+Schematics/langevinlayout.jpg

Here's a block diagram of one of Bill Putnam's consoles.

http://groupdiy.twin-x.com/albums/userpics/10031/PutCon1.pdf

In this book
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1860742424/103-7957448-5131816?v=glance

There is a nice piccie in Jeff Jarrets spare room of one of the transistor Beatles desks (and it looks like one of the box rooms in a standard modern british house)

He lent this back to them for the 1990s reunion album

A picture of the desk in use can be seen here
http://reunionsessions.tripod.com/al/faabsessions/1995d.html

For more info on the valve desk why not send these guys an email?
http://www.2khzstudios.co.uk/studios.php


Studio One
The focus of 2KHz, Studio One provides full recording and editing facilities. With plenty of standard and more unusual equipment available, there's room for a full band and more. Beyond the window is a world-class production suite, including the increasingly famous 1964 EMI desk from Abbey Road.


Picture of it is here

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug04/images/unkle3.l.jpg

And here

http://www.toontrack.com/bilder/studio_london.gif

(although the F760 is a Helios compressor)

2KHz?s TG is an ex-Abbey Road Mobile console (1964 design) with a 28 channel /16 track configuration, with Germanium Transistor Mic Pre's.

And of course the porn of TG mixers
http://www.tgmixers.co.uk/Frames/frameset.html

Another Block diagram of a 1960s mixer

http://www.soundtechniquesdesks.co.uk/block.gif

By all means, please post any additional links or information that you feel could be relevant or useful. Thanks. :grin:

***
 
Yeah, I'm not a perfect cut and paster.

I'll try to weed out the transistor or solid state stuff, but if any of you see stuff that should go or be added, please chime in. Thanks. :grin:
 
tcheck these photos out. notice the vocal mics 1 44? and u47.

frank.jpg


and pre 47 days.

jb_wwii_sinatra_2_e.jpg
 
The guy wears a suit, tie and hat to the session! They're tracking everything live! The room is so big you can't even see the back wall or the ceiling in the shot! And I'll bet the console had big rotary pots :wink: Damn, those were the days :thumb:
 
It was Frank's world. We just lived in it.
How many babes did he.....ummm......well.....

Let's see..........

Ava Gardner
Marylin Monroe
Shirlie McClaine
Jackie Onassis
Mia Farrow (they can't all be babes I guess)
Liza Minelli

the list goes on and on......


poor Frank, he really had it tough, didn't he?

:twisted:
 
> The guy wears a suit, tie and hat to the session!

TO, but not during, the session. Gotta look neat on the street. Recording was work, jacket and tie would come off. BUT that color photo is clearly a Photo Shoot, not a Recording Session. Look at the light! It is smack in the musicians' eyes. Also it looks like ISO64 film, yet not a time-exposure: it was BRIGHT in that room. There is a honking big light to the left, a lesser light to the right. Optimized for Sinatra's face but also washing the band. I bet the band could not read their scores for 10 minutes after they turned those photo lights out.

The B&W photo is harder to read. It is in candid style, but has been set-up, but maybe set-up in a very general way. It has the look of Tri-X (or over-developed Plus-X) in a Rolli, handheld. Maybe the photographer set up lights at rehearsal and then snapped 100+ pictures over an hour, until people forgot he was there. Or maybe the idea was to pose Sinatra in the puddle of light at the left for a Posed Photo on the color-camera, like the one above; but before or after that formal shot the photog saw this scene and grabbed it with the Tri-X Rolli/Leica we all carried for candid work.

> They're tracking everything live!

Of course. Sinatra was a live act. He had to hear the band. The band had to follow him. His recording work evolved, but at the time of these pix he was doing what he did in the dives of Hoboken, just more slow and careful with re-takes.

> The room is so big you can't even see the back wall or the ceiling in the shot!

The ceiling is visible... about 18 feet. That's actually a small room for big band. You don't want to be that close to horns. Our 15 foot hall is painful with just one trumpet.
 
[quote author="PRR"]BUT that color photo is clearly a Photo Shoot, not a Recording Session. Look at the light! It is smack in the musicians' eyes. Also it looks like ISO64 film, yet not a time-exposure: it was BRIGHT in that room. There is a honking big light to the left, a lesser light to the right. Optimized for Sinatra's face but also washing the band. I bet the band could not read their scores for 10 minutes after they turned those photo lights out. [/quote]

ISO64? If so, then it would have been Kodachrome-X; Ektachrome never had reds like that! But did they make Kodachrome-X in tungsten balance? My memory fails me. I know that Kodachrome II came in an ASA (now ISO) 40 tungsten version.

The B&W photo is harder to read. It is in candid style, but has been set-up, but maybe set-up in a very general way. It has the look of Tri-X (or over-developed Plus-X) in a Rolli, handheld. Maybe the photographer set up lights at rehearsal and then snapped 100+ pictures over an hour, until people forgot he was there. Or maybe the idea was to pose Sinatra in the puddle of light at the left for a Posed Photo on the color-camera, like the one above; but before or after that formal shot the photog saw this scene and grabbed it with the Tri-X Rolli/Leica we all carried for candid work.

I'd say maybe Plus-X in a Rollei, but I'm more inclined to think Super-XX in a Speed Graphic. It's lit a little too perfectly to be a real candid, and the quality looks more like sheet film.

Back to audio: in the color shot, that looks like a C12 as his vocal mic; there's a U47 dead center, an RCA at the far right, and what I think is an Altec salt-shaker over the drums, close enough to be in harm's way.

Peace,
Paul
 
For some serious studio pics of sessions (including Franks, Aretha, etc...)
Check out this book

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0811833941/104-8553005-5412736?v=glance

It's on mine and Rob Flinns bookshelves....
 
[quote author="NewYorkDave"]I can download it OK. Anyone else having problems with it?[/quote]

Downloading is ok, but I can't open it either. It says something like file corrupted or so...

Michael
 
[quote author="NewYorkDave"]

And here's some info about the C*B*S 3*B console.

(Link long gone)

I submit that the CBS console looks to be a custom Langevin design with 116 and 117 amps.
 
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