understanding the DG413 switch

[Analog_Fan]

It's the first time i'm considering to use a ic from the DG series.
i got a question regarding pin 12 Logic Power Supply (5 V).

Digital inputs = 0 V or 5 V

Want to power this chip from a +/-12 v power supply, what should i do with pin12?
the accepted logic is 5 volt?

further

DIGITAL INPUTS
Input High Voltage, VINH 2.4 2.4 V min
Input Low Voltage, VINL 0.8 0.8 V max

means less than 0,8 V is considered low and more than 2.4 V is considered high?

 

[JohnRoberts]

pin 12 "VL" needs to get 5V to power the internal digital glue logic.

The Logic 5v supply current draw is single digit uA so you do not need a robust supply.

JR

 

[Analog_Fan]

pin 12 "VL" needs to get 5V to power the internal digital glue logic.

The Logic 5v supply current draw is single digit uA so you do not need a robust supply.

JR

so, i also need to supply max 5 volt to the IN pins (1,8, 9, 16).
weird circuit in the schematic diagram.

switch one and four are normally closed and get opened once you apply a voltage to the IN pin.
two and three are normally open, ...
right?

 

[moamps]

You can use +12V for VL if it is easier for you, for example if you will control switches with CMOS logic or manual switches.

switch one and four are normally closed and get opened once you apply a voltage to the IN pin.
two and three are normally open, ...right?

No. They say: "SWITCHES SHOWN FOR A LOGIC 1 INPUT"

 

[JohnRoberts]

The data sheet says V logic voltage is 5V +/- 10%

When in doubt I follow the data sheet advice

JR

 

[moamps]

Me too.

 

[JohnRoberts]

read that data sheet too...

I stand corrected... thanks

JR

 

[moamps]

From Maxim datasheet for DG411/413

 

[Analog_Fan]

taken from the Renesas DG413 datasheet:

it's (a bit) weird schematic.
A Mosfet with 4 leads, sourcing from 5V and the body "diode" back to the general supply? ... although the input (INx) as the VL are prior voltage clampled. it's like any voltage can actuate on the left side of the long tail while only 5 v can actuate on the right side of the long tail.

saw this schematic after i asked the question.

Aside: also this current mirror above the long tail is new to me, normally it's a pair of PNP with both bases sourcing from one side.

I'm also looking for substitute for the CD4053 and CD4052 but instead of operating on max 18/20 V can handle like DG413, V+ to V- 44V

 

[JohnRoberts]

look inside the the typical cmos CD4xxx series. CMOS has benefitted along with the widespread improvements in IC processes. I don't see much market for high voltage CMOS logic, if anything lower and lower voltage operation seems indicated.

The transfer gate variants are generally low volume specialized applications, but the technology has found a relatively high volume niche with digital gain controlled mic preamps.

I designed lots of TG switching circuits back last century and managed the rail limitations using different strategies in different SKUs... in a big console I used the TGs to switch signals as currents in virtual earth circuits... In another more complex (midi controlled inserts/patch bay I operated the CMOS from +/-8V rails.

As usual I wish we had these improved chips back when I was in the ditches.

JR

 

[Analog_Fan]

look inside the the typical cmos CD4xxx series. CMOS has benefitted along with the widespread improvements in IC processes. I don't see much market for high voltage CMOS logic, if anything lower and lower voltage operation seems indicated.

The transfer gate variants are generally low volume specialized applications, but the technology has found a relatively high volume niche with digital gain controlled mic preamps.

I designed lots of TG switching circuits back last century and managed the rail limitations using different strategies in different SKUs... in a big console I used the TGs to switch signals as currents in virtual earth circuits... In another more complex (midi controlled inserts/patch bay I operated the CMOS from +/-8V rails.

As usual I wish we had these improved chips back when I was in the ditches.

JR

yeah, i used the CD4053, CD4052 in some circuits, but i had to use a dedicated power supply or some other tricks for them to have them running on a Eurorack synthesizer bi-polar +/-12 V psu, just wanted to prevent that and not waste the PCB space on that. using a opamps or zeners, resistors and capacitors to build a power supply under a power supply.

the (A)DG412/ A)DG413 can replace a CD4016/CD4066 and not requiring extra PCB space.
but the CD4052 and CD4051 has some sometimes useful logic built in.

What didn't they make them to run on +/-24 volt?

 

[RSRecords]

The DG333ALDW-E3 does +/-22v but is 4x spdt...I was looking at using it for pre/post switching. Being able to run at the already present bipolar 18v rails would be a huge win.

 

[Analog_Fan]

The DG333ALDW-E3 does +/-22v but is 4x spdt...I was looking at using it for pre/post switching. Being able to run at the already present bipolar 18v rails would be a huge win.

having 7812 and 7912 regulators as for 18, 24 Volt.

Why didn't they think of that?
from reading like datasheets i have understood that they needed a new silicon technology for "high" voltage devices.

But these company have the focus on 3v33 or smaller devices, that's where the money is, (smart)phones, tables, computers, laptop, cars and vehicles.
Being able to sell millions of devices, where as "our" market is ignored, to small.

Do these people read here?
how can we convince them?

 

[JohnRoberts]

Do these people read here?
how can we convince them?

it's just math.... most modern audio technology advances have come from the consumer electronics business.

JR

 

[Newmarket]

Do these people read here?
how can we convince them?

We don't. Unless you have the demand and resource to drive that financially.
Rather, we design and adapt within the available parameters.

 

[Analog_Fan]

it's just math.... most modern audio technology advances have come from the consumer electronics business.

JR

well, why not grow a nanometre or 2 extra oxide and what not on the silicon and have some chips that can cope with 24 V instead of 18 or 20 V (cd40..).
Now i need to sacrifice like 4mc² and build a dedicated power supply for these chips.

Some Synthesizer design even employ +/- 15 V, but than again these people used relative huge pcb's while i tend to aim for 4HP.

 

[JohnRoberts]

It cost even more money to develop a new semiconductor process, than tool up a new IC.

There are already higher voltage processes in use.

I repeat, not enough customers to justify the tooling expense.

JR

 

[Analog_Fan]

It cost even more money to develop a new semiconductor process, than tool up a new IC.

There are already higher voltage processes in use.

I repeat, not enough customers to justify the tooling expense.

JR

the designs are already made, just make it cope with a tiny bit of more amperage/voltage, hence grow a bit more oxide, make the gold/silver tracks a bit thicker.

 

[JohnRoberts]

If it was that simple it would likely already be done... but keep wishing.

JR

 

[abbey road d enfer]

just make it cope with a tiny bit of more amperage/voltage

Like putting bigger transistors...