Voter Fraud!!!

[JohnRoberts]

Guys this is just a diversion... read the actual news..

JR

 

[pucho812]

Vote "miscounting" goes WAAAAY back. I vaguely recall from childhood a few scandals in OK (TX?) where entire ballot boxes would not make it to the required location for hand counting. Or, a crook's campaign would literally open a ballot box and remove paper ballots for the opposition. LONG before machine tabulations.

And, the term "stuffing the ballot box" came from the same era when extra/bogus paper ballots were literally inserted into the aforementioned physical ballot boxes.

Bri

It’s not about those who voted, it’s about those who count the votes

 

[living sounds]

As for mythical vote suppression...insisting on voter ID and limiting mail-in balloting are common all over the world, including in Germany.

https://www.angloinfo.com/how-to/germany/moving/voting
Is Germany also a pernicious vote-suppressor?

In Germany everyone is issued a government ID, there is complete transparency and almost everyone is commited to make voting fair and easy.

In contrast, in the US there is no general ID and Republicans have attempted to prevent certain kinds of people (students, blacks, hispanics etc.) who reliably skew Democratic from voting and to make it easier for groups who reliably skew Republican (e.g. gun owners) by selectively allowing or disallowing certain kinds of ID (student ID card, gun ownership permit). They also selectively tried to change voting hours, close voting stations, increase drive and wait times etc.

It is a transparent attack on basic democratic principles. Nothing of the sort has ever happened on any kind of relevant scale in the Federal Republic of Germany.

Again, context is everything. And I don't think you guys are stupid. It seems you either don't want or care to see these important (and really quite obvious) disctinctions. That's the worrying part.

 

[cyrano]

One of the first US produced voting machines used some Windows version as OS, and an Access database for storage. One of the fields in the database was meant for "corrections".

Even if the choice of software doesn't bother you, that corrections field should.

I don't think it's a mere coincidence that the manufacturer has changed names a few times. They are still supplying voting machines to the US govt...

 

[AnalogPackrat]

In Germany everyone is issued a government ID, there is complete transparency and almost everyone is commited to make voting fair and easy.

Our national government does not control elections. That power is expressly delegated to the states by our Constitution. The only federal level photo ID issued to any citizen who requests it is a passport, but that contains no locality of residence information for obvious reasons.

In contrast, in the US there is no general ID and Republicans have attempted to prevent certain kinds of people (students, blacks, hispanics etc.) who reliably skew Democratic from voting and to make it easier for groups who reliably skew Republican (e.g. gun owners) by selectively allowing or disallowing certain kinds of ID (student ID card, gun ownership permit).

You are sorely misinformed. Requiring a state (as in one of 50 states) ID to vote is not discriminatory. Such ID is required to open a bank account, rent an apartment, purchase a gun, apply for a job, obtain state assistance, etc. In my home state it takes 30 minutes at the DMV.

How are you conflating gun ownership with access to voting? States that require ID (like the one where I now reside) only accept State issued photo ID/driver's license at the polls.

They also selectively tried to change voting hours, close voting stations, increase drive and wait times etc.

Voting hours are set at the state level. When I hear stories about long waits and similar problems it is usually in large cities which are nearly all controlled by Democrats. I'll note that in my previous state of residence I had to drive 6 miles to my polling place. In 2020 CA closed many of these, including the one I had used for 21 years. I was directed to one that was 12-15 miles away and which had to serve a much larger population. CA is not GOP controlled. The county in which I resided was even more blue than the state (over 70% voting D in the last few elections).

It is a transparent attack on basic democratic principles. Nothing of the sort has ever happened on any kind of relevant scale in the Federal Republic of Germany.

Yet ID is required there (good) and mail-in voting is highly limited (also good). Your assertions fail to pass any rational analysis.

Again, context is everything. And I don't think you guys are stupid. It seems you either don't want or care to see these important (and really quite obvious) disctinctions. That's the worrying part.

No, we do care about election integrity and we want the same basic controls that most civilized nations have, Germany (and Mexico) included. You can't argue both sides.

 

[hodad]

One of the first US produced voting machines used some Windows version as OS, and an Access database for storage. One of the fields in the database was meant for "corrections".

The first system used in Georgia (from Diebold) was hot garbage. The system password, apparently, was left as "1234" even after the system went live. I do not know if the vote was manipulated in the first election where these machines were used, but it would not have been a challenge to do so. The system we have now (from Dominion) appears to be far less hackable. I have to commend the Republicans who put it in place--it's a definite improvement.

 

[Gold]

You are sorely misinformed. Requiring a state (as in one of 50 states) ID to vote is not discriminatory. Such ID is required to open a bank account, rent an apartment, purchase a gun, apply for a job, obtain state assistance, etc. In my home state it takes 30 minutes at the DMV

Many disagree. For example, if you are homeless you may not have any of that stuff and a hard time getting it. Although you are eligible to vote.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Many disagree. For example, if you are homeless you may not have any of that stuff and a hard time getting it. Although you are eligible to vote.

What solution do you propose that would rectify the situation for the homeless without negatively affecting election integrity? Also note that the estimated homeless population who are over 18 is about 500k or 0.2% of eligible voters. And many suffer from mental illness and/or drug addiction. Should we also encourage dementia and Alzheimer's sufferers to vote?

 

[fallout]

Many disagree. For example, if you are homeless you may not have any of that stuff and a hard time getting it. Although you are eligible to vote.

If the homeless vote, who does it benefit? You? Certainly not the homeless. Ask mayor Adams, he seems to be setting records.

 

[Gold]

What solution do you propose that would rectify the situation for the homeless without negatively affecting election integrity? Also note that the estimated homeless population who are over 18 is about 500k or 0.2% of eligible voters. And many suffer from mental illness and/or drug addiction. Should we also encourage dementia and Alzheimer's sufferers to vote?

In NYS you vote by matching of previous signatures. If there is any question the ballot is put aside for further verification.

 

[volker]

Should we also encourage dementia and Alzheimer's sufferers to vote?

Reps would be doing worse if they didn't.

Spoiler

Sorry that was too hard to resist.

 

[Gold]

And many suffer from mental illness and/or drug addiction. Should we also encourage dementia and Alzheimer's sufferers to vote?

Yes

 

[AnalogPackrat]

In NYS you vote by matching of previous signatures. If there is any question the ballot is put aside for further verification.

And who does the verification? Handwriting experts? Or just some random volunteer poll worker? What are the false positive and false negative rates of this system? How is this superior to non-subjective use of a simple photo ID?

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Yes

I really want to break one of Ethan's rules now <bites tongue>. A civil society is not well-served by allowing those with diagnosed mental deterioration/disorders that greatly impede clear thinking to vote. For the record two of my grandparents fell into this category for a time before they died and my mother is currently in it.

 

[fallout]

In NYS you vote by matching of previous signatures. If there is any question the ballot is put aside for further verification.

Adults with severe intellectual disabilities still have to have a state ID to apply for benefits. If you don't have your shit together enough to get an ID, you shouldn't be able to vote, sorry.

 

[Gold]

And who does the verification? Handwriting experts? Or just some random volunteer poll worker? What are the false positive and false negative rates of this system? How is this superior to non-subjective use of a simple photo ID?

Banks did it all the time when checks were in common with use. It is superior because you don’t need a printed Id, which is hard for some to get. Like a homeless person.

 

[Gold]

Adults with severe intellectual disabilities still have to have a state ID to apply for benefits. If you don't have your shit together enough to get an ID, you shouldn't be able to vote, sorry.

The people least able to care for themselves shouldn’t be able to vote? Seems to me they should be first in line. Billionaires don’t need much help.

 

[Recording Engineer]

A civil society is not well-served by allowing those with diagnosed mental deterioration/disorders that greatly impede clear thinking to vote.

Who determines who’s sound of mind and who’s not? …Asking for trouble with this line of thought, in my opinion. Plus, at that point, who’s to say that should be limited to voting? Why not procreation, among plenty of other things? …An extremely slippery-slip here.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

The people least able to care for themselves shouldn’t be able to vote?

People unable to manage their own affairs have no business voting and, thus by proxy, running everyone else's affairs.

Seems to me they should be first in line. Billionaires don’t need much help.

Why should they be first in line? What more do they know about creating, maintaining, and running the (now overly complex) systems of state?

 

[hodad]

And many suffer from mental illness and/or drug addiction.

So I have a friend who's homeless--I've known him 20+ years, since long before he no longer had a home. Substance abuse? He certainly has a drink from time to time. Mental illness? Occasional bouts of depression, which I've seen get pretty severe on one or two occasions. But I know housed people with far worse substance problems, and with far greater issues with mental illness. You're painting a lot of people with a very broad brush, and neglecting to note that plenty of other people, whose right to vote you seem to have no problem with, have addiction and mental health issues that are as bad or worse than a great many of the homeless. The lack of a street address is the only distinction that is absolute between the housed and the homeless.