Voter Fraud!!!

[Recording Engineer]

Well, let's see. Medical professionals are currently empowered with this determination for legal purposes (maybe you've heard the term "power of attorney"). In CA, a person designated mentally incapacitated by dementia, Alzheimer's, etc. must surrender their driver's license (they may still have a state ID). Convicted Felons are prohibited from voting. No one said anything about procreation. It isn't a slippery slope.

Power of attorney is personally determined by you, someone you trust will handle things as what’s best for you and what you want, prior; and different for every individual.

So you really want medical professionals or some “political professional” to determine if you’re sound-enough to vote? Is this where you’re really going with this?

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Power of attorney is personally determined by you, someone you trust will handle things as what’s best for you and what you want, prior; and different for every individual.

Did I imply otherwise? It is prudent for any adult to designate their POA desires, document them, and inform relevant family and friends in case the need arises. In cases where no POA has been designated a parent/guardian, spouse, etc. may end up having effective decision-making regardless. In some cases the state will decide. This is nothing new.

So you really want medical professionals or some “political professional” to determine if you’re sound-enough to vote?

If I have Alzheimer's, dementia, or other mental incapacitation I would want my POA designee to manage my affairs including removing me from voter rolls or simply preventing me from voting. It is the sane and pragmatic thing to do. If a person has not "gotten their shit together" before such an event (designated POA) or has never been in control of their own affairs, then some other authority, be it doctors or state actors should decide.

Is this where you’re really going with this?

Yes. You fail to realize that in many cases the important decisions that drive this whole discussion have already been made by the individual who failed to care for themselves, failed to plan for future events, or some combination. A person who has untreated mental illness and who has no personal support structure (family, friends, insurance) should become a ward of the state, not left out in society to fend for themselves--something they clearly cannot do.

Some of these conditions are reversible (homelessness, addiction) and others are not (Alzheimer's, dementia, psychosis, etc.). A person who is in a dysfunctional state of being has no business voting or making any other important decisions. That is all.

 

[scott2000]

Some of these conditions are reversible

Apparently felons are irredeemable in some places.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Apparently felons are irredeemable in some places.

Felons who have done irreversible damage to victims or society, by their own agency, perhaps shouldn't be trusted with such decisions, either. We allow wide latitude for tolerable personal behaviour in our society. Criminal action has repercussions. The complement to liberty is personal responsibility.

 

[scott2000]

Yeah those 18yo that stole $300 worth of stuff back when it wasn't cool got the short end of the stick

 

[Matador]

How can you be protected by the Constitution if you're not identifyable?

The word "identification" doesn't appear in the Constitution.

 

[cyrano]

The first system used in Georgia (from Diebold) was hot garbage. The system password, apparently, was left as "1234" even after the system went live. I do not know if the vote was manipulated in the first election where these machines were used, but it would not have been a challenge to do so. The system we have now (from Dominion) appears to be far less hackable. I have to commend the Republicans who put it in place--it's a definite improvement.

And who do you think Dominion is?

Dominion was called "Premier Election Systems". PES was a Diebold subsidiary that was formed after Diebold got a very bad rep with their first gen machines. Exactly the same strategy is empolyed by Blackwater.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_(company)
Meanwhile Diebold acquired Nixdorf, so our ATMs in Europe are Diebolds too.

They've been trying very hard to sell voting systems to EU countries, with very little success. AFAIK no country in the EU uses those.

The first reason is Diebold isn't prepared to open source their OS and other software, which is legally required.

The second is their systems are a lot more expensive compared to the existing open source software that runs on commodity PC hardware.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Yeah those 18yo that stole $300 worth of stuff back when it wasn't cool got the short end of the stick

Crime has consequences. Self-control is important. Where I come from it never was "cool" to steal anything.

 

[fallout]

The word "identification" doesn't appear in the Constitution.

Nice but citizen does!

https://www.uscis.gov/forms/explore-my-options/proof-of-citizenship-for-us-citizens
You are a U.S. citizen if you have a:

• Birth certificate showing birth in the United States;
• Form N-550, Certificate of Naturalization;
• Form N-560, Certificate of Citizenship;
• Form FS-240, Report of Birth Abroad of United States Citizen; or
• Valid unexpired U.S. passport.
• COVID-19 Vaccination Passport

 

[Recording Engineer]

My point is:
Power Of Attorney and what you’re suggesting for voting are two completely different things. You’re just using it to justify the other. People would use that to justify it for other things. Again, extremely slippery-slope.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

My point is:
Poorer Of Attorney and what you’re suggesting for voting are two completely different things, you’re just using it to justify the other. People would use that to justify it for other things. Again, extremely slippery-slope.

My point was that people already relinquish control of their decision-making to others on a regular basis. And that certain rights are already forfeited due to mental incapacitation. This is nothing new and is not a slippery slope.

 

[scott2000]

Crime has consequences. Self-control is important. Where I come from it never was "cool" to steal anything.

Just saying it in context of rehabilitation if you want to call it that. Some kids do stupid things once. Peer pressure, bad choices, whatever.... to be 18 and make a mistake that affects your entire life is a bit open for debate imo.
But at least the front row seat to watching all the brilliant decisions being made by the righteous ones while having a clear conscience isn't such a bad deal in the end.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Just saying it in context of rehabilitation if you want to call it that. Some kids do stupid things once. Peer pressure, bad choices, whatever.... to be 18 and make a mistake that affects your entire life is a bit open for debate imo.

I understand that. And perhaps certain "victimless" felonies could be treated differently. But multiple offenses are indicative of deeper trouble.

But at least the front row seat to watching all the brilliant decisions being made by the righteous ones while having a clear conscience isn't such a bad deal in the end.

False dichotomy. Avoiding making truly stupid decisions is easy. That doesn't equate to only making brilliant ones. Most bad decisions aren't felonies. Everybody makes bad choices at times and they aren't criminal offenses.

 

[scott2000]

Everybody makes bad choices at times and they aren't criminal offenses.

lol

 

[hodad]

And who do you think Dominion is?

Dominion was called "Premier Election Systems". PES was a Diebold subsidiary that was formed after Diebold got a very bad rep with their first gen machines. Exactly the same strategy is employed by Blackwater.

I was unaware--it's worth knowing. The good news is that the system is far better than what we had in the early 2000s. On a certain level, that's to be expected--computer tech is far superior, and there have been ample opportunities to correct mistakes. One detail that was not initially in the current system was a paper ballot that lists your votes. I feel a lot more comfortable having a paper backup (and as you may or may not know, Georgia's 2020 and 2022 elections have been examined extensively and appear to be secure and on the up and up. Not that that's proof, but it's better than the alternative.)

 

[boji]

https://theamericanscholar.org/the-virtue-of-an-educated-voter/

 

[PermO]

An educated voter does not vote.

I can't believe how obviously intelligent people buy into the BS game of politics.

All they do is provide you an artificial door to nowhere for you to kick against , you're all kicking the wrong door.

 

[fallout]

An educated voter does not vote.

I half agree with this. Once you get to the state level (USA politics), it's all nonsense. Voting in local elections does make a difference at times.

 

[cyrano]

I was unaware--it's worth knowing. The good news is that the system is far better than what we had in the early 2000s. On a certain level, that's to be expected--computer tech is far superior, and there have been ample opportunities to correct mistakes. One detail that was not initially in the current system was a paper ballot that lists your votes. I feel a lot more comfortable having a paper backup (and as you may or may not know, Georgia's 2020 and 2022 elections have been examined extensively and appear to be secure and on the up and up. Not that that's proof, but it's better than the alternative.)

One of the brothers who control the group was named as US sales director for EU voting machines maker Scyth. Scyth went belly up a few years later, to be gobbled up by the Diebold group.

I'd say Diebold still is in voting electronics. They just put up a big smoke screen.

 

[pucho812]

And we’re back to our regularly scheduled programming