Warm Audio WA-67 - Teardown

[pinchemotherloaf]

Actually, it's not the. solder, it's the flux residues that amalgamate dirt and humidity.

Contamination can be a problem but solder itself can contribute to noise, if excessive, connected to high value resistors.

 

[GENX]

Not to highjack this thread, but I purchased a Lauten Eden earlier this year. It really has a large capsule. I think at the time, the largest at 38 MM. I can definitely hear stunningly more detail with this mic than any other condensor I have had. (C414xls, Mojave et.al) It has a gentle voicing switch that some say emulate vintage Mics. I wouldn't know as I never wanted to afford a vintage Mic. But my ears tell me that there is definitely something special about this mic in the detail. I also like modern setting switch in the way it pushes the upper mids and HF's. I love gear that can have multiple different setting applied. The high end push, super detailed and clarity, voiced without harshness and had the transformer harmonics. I think it truly is an exceptional mic. However I am definilty wanting to take an avantone CV-12 Pro and mod it as I really like the stock sound it has as well. I think that has potential to be a great donor mic to modify into an exceptional sounding 251 that won't break the bank. Anybody done this or have one or either of these?

 

[McIrish]

Thanks Whoops for the detailed tear-down and notes on the Warm 67. Thank you for taking the time to do this.

 

[LevinGuitar]

Not to highjack this thread, but I purchased a Lauten Eden earlier this year. It really has a large capsule. I think at the time, the largest at 38 MM. I can definitely hear stunningly more detail with this mic than any other condensor I have had. (C414xls, Mojave et.al) It has a gentle voicing switch that some say emulate vintage Mics. I wouldn't know as I never wanted to afford a vintage Mic. But my ears tell me that there is definitely something special about this mic in the detail. I also like modern setting switch in the way it pushes the upper mids and HF's. I love gear that can have multiple different setting applied. The high end push, super detailed and clarity, voiced without harshness and had the transformer harmonics. I think it truly is an exceptional mic. However I am definilty wanting to take an avantone CV-12 Pro and mod it as I really like the stock sound it has as well. I think that has potential to be a great donor mic to modify into an exceptional sounding 251 that won't break the bank. Anybody done this or have one or either of these?

Don't know how it sounds, but my guess is: with a custom edge terminated capsule and EF86 tube circuit, it will be hard to beat with a modded CV12 without a great ck12 capsule



I would try a Telefunken EF86 in the Eden instead.

 

[kingkorg]

@bo108
Hei nabo!
A friendly advice as i like some of your products very much. No u47 clone will have anything to do with a 47 without a k47 or m7 capsule. I am quite surprised you made all this effort, and used wrong capsule. K47s are so easy obtainable and inexpensive that i don't see a reason to skimp here. Also these k67 capsules you used in your mic are very well known as cheapest and least consistent ever. Fix this and you'll have a decent product.

Update: Now i see your mic is priced around 2000 euros here in Norway. You can't get away with using a readily available 20$ k67 capsule. The body is also available at Aliexpress for 50$.

Hilsen fra Nesodden

 

[soliloqueen]

@bo108
Hei nabo!
A friendly advice as i like some of your products very much. No u47 clone will have anything to do with a 47 without a k47 or m7 capsule. I am quite surprised you made all this effort, and used wrong capsule. K47s are so easy obtainable and inexpensive that i don't see a reason to skimp here. Also these k67 capsules you used in your mic are very well known as cheapest and least consistent ever. Fix this and you'll have a decent product.

Update: Now i see your mic is priced around 2000 euros here in Norway. You can't get away with using a readily available 20$ k67 capsule. The body is also available at Aliexpress for 50$.

Hilsen fra Nesodden

I've seen these weird fluorescent yellow wire k87s being sold on alibaba. Interesting to hear from you that they suck, thanks

 

[Whoops]

Not to highjack this thread

So please don't do it, you can start a thread about what you wrote in the microphones section

 

[Whoops]

I'm sharing the capsule mount / holder that I designed for 3D printing.
It can be used for anyone fixing a broken mount on the WA67 or on any other microphone that has a similar system.

I'm waiting for it to be uploaded to "Thingiverse" so it will be available for everyone, but while the uploading is waiting to be accepted I share here a google drive link for download

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZrZCF2fUHO3bl_gnM3YsZ_Hp3Wa2O2ZW/view?usp=sharing

 

[kingkorg]

I've seen these weird fluorescent yellow wire k87s being sold on alibaba. Interesting to hear from you that they suck, thanks

Don't judge the book by it's covers. The wire can be misleading. It's not the same capsule found on Ali. This one is 35mm variant of k67 mentioned here as

Advanced Audio Microphones AK67​

http://recordinghacks.com/capsules/​

There is also a 32mm version. All of these are found in Shuaiyinn, TSM, Alctron, MXL, sadly some Telefunken mics...

They have weird responses, rarely matched or even similar sides, cost pretty much nothing as oem parts.

What i hate the most about these is that way too many companies claimed to sell "premium" or "selected" or "tuned" versions for more money. When in reality there is pretty much nothing one can do to make them perform as a proper k67 should. First of all overall diameter is wrong in both models. Some of these companies are Telefunken, Peluso, AA... And way too many are sold in some very expensive models. SE RNT for example. Yikes that one sends chills down my spine

Not to say one can not make a decent mic with these, decent being the key word.

 

[soliloqueen]

Don't judge the book by it's covers. The wire can be misleading. It's not the same capsule found on Ali. This one is 35mm variant of k67 mentioned here as

Advanced Audio Microphones AK67​

http://recordinghacks.com/capsules/​

There is also a 32mm version. All of these are found in Shuaiyinn, TSM, Alctron, MXL, sadly some Telefunken mics...

They have weird responses, rarely matched or even similar sides, cost pretty much nothing as oem parts.

What i hate the most about these is that way too many companies claimed to sell "premium" or "selected" or "tuned" versions for more money. When in reality there is pretty much nothing one can do to make them perform as a proper k67 should. First of all overall diameter is wrong in both models. Some of these companies are Telefunken, Peluso, AA...

I've heard of those. The idea was to lower the peak in the high frequency by expanding the diaphragm area. It makes sense in theory. There's nothing wrong with the idea inherently but it's sad to hear that it's been done so badly? Wholesale capsules can vary widely in price and I find price doesn't really reflect quality. Some of the better wholesale capsules I've seen run in the 30 to 40 range. But also some of the worst in that very same range. When all these companies are buying the same uninspiring backplates it all comes down to the consistency and talent with the production.

 

[kingkorg]

I've heard of those. The idea was to lower the peak in the high frequency by expanding the diaphragm area. It makes sense in theory. There's nothing wrong with the idea inherently but it's sad to hear that it's been done so badly?

I edited my previous post. Like i said not that one can not make a decent mic with these, what bothers me is that people sell these for anything above 30$ and claim they are somehow special. Or use them in something like SE RNT with different color tension ring, or mentioned 2000€ Golden Age mic.

 

[Whoops]

I think I already asked, but the question was probably forgotten in the thread.

Why do you think Warm Audio increase C9 value to 4,7uf?




Like Moby said, normal values were either 0,5uf ot 1uf, so 4,7uf is much higher than that.
Is there any reasoning any technical explanation for them to use an higher value for that component?
What are the technical implications of it?

Thank you so much

 

[soliloqueen]

I think I already asked, but the question was probably forgotten in the thread.

Why do you think Warm Audio increase C9 value to 4,7uf?

View attachment 88592


Like Moby said, normal values were either 0,5uf ot 1uf, so 4,7uf is much higher than that.
Is there any reasoning any technical explanation for them to use an higher value for that component?
What are the technical implications of it?

Thank you so much

The original assembly value of this capacitor is actually 0.47uf. Did they use the wrong capacitor by an order of magnitude, or (sorry but it's also possible) did you misread the ext on the scope/cap?

Got a picture of C9?

 

[xeawr]

I edited my previous post. Like i said not that one can not make a decent mic with these, what bothers me is that people sell these for anything above 30$ and claim they are somehow special. Or use them in something like SE RNT with different color tension ring, or mentioned 2000€ Golden Age mic.

Maybe it's a language barrier problem, but there is something about your post I don't understand. Why can't other manufacturers (than Neumann) produce a quality 32-34mm center terminated capsule?

If Neumann makes a wonderful K870/K67, why shouldn't anyone else?

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Well, the picture is clear enough, it's really a 4.7uF that's installed in the Warm.
As to the reason, I can only speculate. Maybe they did it preventatively, maybe they did it because their xfmr has a lower inductance (but I doubt by a factor 10), maybe they made a mistake, maybe they had only this value in stock...
In order to know more, either someone can pick the designer's brains, or someone measures the circuit's response and the xfmr separately.

 

[soliloqueen]

Well, the picture is clear enough, it's really a 4.7uF that's installed in the Warm.
As to the reason, I can only speculate. Maybe they did it preventatively, maybe they did it because their xfmr has a lower inductance (but I doubt by a factor 10), maybe they made a mistake, maybe they had only this value in stock...
In order to know more, either someone can pick the designer's brains, or someone measures the circuit's response and the xfmr separately.

sorry, i missed the picture! hmm

 

[kingkorg]

Maybe it's a language barrier problem, but there is something about your post I don't understand. Why can't other manufacturers (than Neumann) produce a quality 32-34mm center terminated capsule?

If Neumann makes a wonderful K870/K67, why shouldn't anyone else?

Oh, they absolutely can. The issue is that these two i mentioned are 32mm and 35mm. So inherently they can not perform exactly as Neumann's which is 34mm. If nothing else because of the dimensions. 1 millimeter of difference when it comes to capsules is enormous.

 

[Whoops]

Yes the value is 4,7uf
check this photo

 

[pinchemotherloaf]

I think I already asked, but the question was probably forgotten in the thread.

Why do you think Warm Audio increase C9 value to 4,7uf?

View attachment 88592


Like Moby said, normal values were either 0,5uf ot 1uf, so 4,7uf is much higher than that.
Is there any reasoning any technical explanation for them to use an higher value for that component?
What are the technical implications of it?

Thank you so much

This may of some interest in selecting output cap size:
Coupling Capacitor Calculator by V-Caps
Maybe they are compensating for the transformer.

 

[xeawr]

Oh, they absolutely can. The issue is that these two i mentioned are 32mm and 35mm. So inherently they can not perform exactly as Neumann's which is 34mm. If nothing else because of the dimensions. 1 millimeter of difference when it comes to capsules is enormous.

Ok I see. Btw sE Electronics manufactures their own capsules at their own factory. And I have to admit, I think the RNT sounds darn good.

What makes you think the GAP 47 uses a K67-design? Could be a K47 in 35mm, no?