WE 407A Push-Pull Mic Preamp

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[quote author="Larrchild"]Skipwave Wrote:
Hmmmm... You must've forgot to put something in. Confused All that empty space in the center of the box.

Also, the reason it looks like a box of air is to try to get the power transformers into a seperate zipcode.[/quote]

I knew that... really. Note to self: no more sarcasm on internet forums.

Many thanks for sharing the design. You inspired me to get busy on my design project. :thumb:
 
> Man, I hate to rain on the parade, but I can't really hear a difference between those two guitar samples.

It's subtle. I don't want to lead the witness here, but.. The 407a is darker with better bottom flavour, I attribute this to the iron transformer vs transformerless pre in the Mackie. The harmonics are different, too. The 407a lacks some high end, which I attribute to a mismatch of a 40k tube into a 15k transformer, but CJ's on it, so I'm not worried about that part. The little bit of high end aside, the clarity of the tube circuit is evident. Less feedback, perhaps.

I asked my buisness partner, who is a competent guitar player, to stop by with his acoustic to test the pre. He brought over this battered nylon string affair with a cracked soundboard , so I'm not sure if that artifact is the air wheezing out of the crack or what, but it's there on both, and wasn't on my drum recordings. They were 2 seperate takes, although after recording the 407a, I backed up the multitrack, patched the mackie in, and put him on another track to play along with the first one. No compression used in any of this, although soon I will run the drum room mic thru my Larrchild and crush it. Thats how that mic normally gets used, as an ambiance track mixed in to forgoe reverb. I'll post that too. I guess I could do a Mackie/407A bakeoff with the drum mic soon also.

>I knew that... really. Note to self: no more sarcasm on internet forums.

Dude, I knew you knew. I was just saying for anyone who didn't.

I once thought of using <sarcasm></sarcasm> tags to illustrate my tone of typing, but realized it was nearly all the time.

There, see?

Anyway, total investment here besides junkbox parts was a new 25 dollar chassis and a Shallco gold 3 pole switch. Wait, that was a sample. Ok a chassis. And NYD has been gracious enough to send me a 6BQ7 for testing. So if this can be built with a less exotic tube with a 6.3 v fil, it can be built by the masses. I will post the complete schematic with power supplies pronto.
 
Hey Larr... I finally found that 6BQ7 (actually a 6BZ7, but the box is labelled "6BQ7/6BZ7"). I was overlooking it because I thought it was in an RCA box--and it wasn't. I'll send it out as soon as I can get to the post office, most likely tonight or tomorrow night.

You know, it's kind of a sad commentary that it took this thread two months to reach the same page count as most clone threads achieve in a week. I think that's partly why I'm coming around here less often.
 
theres no partslist in excel format or frontpanel designer file for the larrchild amp, so you know, how could anyone build one?

jeesh dave.

dave
 
Souldn't that read

<sarcasm>
[quote author="soundguy"]theres no partslist in excel format or frontpanel designer file for the larrchild amp, so you know, how could anyone build one?

jeesh dave.

dave[/quote]
</sarcasm>

:sam: :green:
 
Fhew! Thanks for clarifying. I was starting to panic! :razz:

I just did the listening test. The warbly noises in the low end sounds like an arcade stocked with Galaxia from the next room. Weird, maybe just encoding artifacts. It was noticeably absent from the drums MP3, so maybe Quicktime is the culprit.

The 407 would be much better when the guitar is the main instrument, singer-songwriter style. Really captures more of the body of the instrument, instead of just the attack of the strings. The upper midrange focus of the Mackie might work if you were trying to squeeze the guitar into a busy mix or a full rock band, but alone it sounds plastic. That is my attempt at objective observations. Do with it what you will.

PS - I think the nylon stings make the difference more subtle. Bronze or steel would make the Whackie say ouch.
 
I agree with everything you say.
I listened to the 24/96 ProTools files and they too have the malady, which in higher resolution does sound like something rattling. Anyway, drum mic tests soon come.

. The upper midrange focus of the Mackie might work if you were trying to squeeze the guitar into a busy mix or a full rock band
In fact, you hit a nail on the head cause it's really hard to make a pop record
with a tube board, ed: by today's standards. Too many channels of "Lush" can turn soft fast.
That said, I want to build 8 of those aluminum preamp modules (note slim form-factor), and sandwich them into an old Ward-Beck broadcast desk frame I have.
Maybe stick some API 550 clones in 'er.
 
I like it! :thumb:

The "squashed" track sounds really good.

Not knowing if the schematics that you posted still applies, i wonder if you thought about bypassing the cathodes of the output tube(s)?
Or if you dont like caps, simply ground them and use -B grid voltage seeing as you have it avalible. THD will rise with gain of course...
 
I was looking at the alarming similarity to the V-72 and noticed they bypass the cathodes on the output stage.

Since I have a "feedback on/off" switch on this to get 2 flavors, in non global feedback mode, the second stage would have no FB with caps on the cathode.

I'm gonna try a 6FQ7 for an output in a day or so. When i dig in again, I'll try some cath-caps and let you know. :thumb:
 
Hey, I hear a difference now...Pretty dramatic difference in the snare drum level and a bit of a difference in the sound (unless you were hitting it differently, which you probably made an effort not to do). Hopefully I didn't get the placebo effect and imagine the snare a little darker but I think thats the case.

I also like the limited sample...it sounds good :thumb: Which of your boxes did you put it through?

That pre looks real nice in that rack. Maybe you should build another to fill in the space underneath!
-Mike
 
I'm not happy with that A/B. They should not sound that different. The dynamics seem stretched on the 407a, as if some kind of gating is occuring.

I had the bias control that varies stage gain set to midway. I may have a decoupling issue on that control port that is modulating the dynamics.

Just another switch I'll add later, ha!

The limiter is my SR-71 (above preamp) in 20:1 and fast release.
That sound mixes in nicely with the main drum mics. :thumb:
 
Just curious...are you using the custom built OPT or is it still in the works.

analag
 
[quote author="Larrchild"]Here's another, more balanced test. I discovered a fawlty dual 1k pot on the output that was acting like a semi-connection. So I redid the 002R and WE 407a comparison.

ProTools 002R Preamp

WE 407A Preamp[/quote]

It's subtle.. but yours is definitely meatier. Its also has a bit more openness and sizzle in the hihat (this I really like by the way).

How is it on hotter signals? Like a close mic'd snare, kick, hihat -- or even better -- a mono overhead mic situation (like in the beatles days). You know to really put it through its paces.
 
mainpre.jpg


Lar, I like the vintage look the knobs impart upon thy preamp. Is there a source I could visit to procure such a thing.

analag
 
Those knobs are the Dakaware ones that rabid Collins Radio Collectors have driven up to $25/knob on Ebay.

Due to this insanity, I don't buy new ones any more. These were bought in the 80's and shined up with polishing compound.

BTW, more recordings are coming of close-up miking and loud things.
 
http://www.elma.com/us/products/rotary_components/Knobs%20&%20Accessories%20%3E%20Collet%20Knobs%20&%20Accessories/122

These guys have some lookalike for about $3.50.
I have been trying to download the clips, but I can't get it. Will try again.

analag
 
[quote author="Clayphish"]Its also has a bit more openness and sizzle in the hihat (this I really like by the way). [/quote]

Woo, yeah! Those hi-hats sound smokin' through your pre. Its much more flattering to that drumkit, especially in a smaller room, which it sounds like you are. In a great big room you don't have to deal with those quick reflections. The 407 pre helps emphasize the attack, maybe distorting it just a bit, so it stays out in front of the room-y stuff. Nice.
 

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