What should we do with the Brewery?

[scott2000]

During my downtime and the depressing feeling that comes with such a major surgery,

Way to pull through!Hopefully you are doing better with your mods .

 

[JohnRoberts]

The Brewery is a great place. Where else would I get to tell you I was fighting an ever increasing pain in my chest, left shoulder, left arm and after the various tests an angiogram uncovered blocked arteries around the heart. During my downtime and the depressing feeling that comes with such a major surgery, I started making stringed instruments. And now stopping is becoming a problem...thus is my addictive personality. The Brewery is powerful tool, but not in the hands of a fool. It rhymed, haha.

good luck, get well...

 

[ruairioflaherty]

I couldn't electronically ignore anyone or any topic here or anywhere else. I think that if I feel the emotional need to "cancel" someone, anywhere, then I have to look at myself FIRST, and ask why I cannot open my eyes, ears, and mind to differing opinion even if I do not agree. Me canceling it only puts my head in the sand. The cancelling going on, especially targeted cancelling, at totalitarian places like goebble, twitler and faschbook is disgraceful.
I voted keep.

If I'm reading you correctly I think you may be conflating conflating two issues.

I don't think that most of us who are suggesting we close the Brewery want to cancel opinions we disagree with. I want everyone to have their opinion and express it freely. But it also seems to me that this place has gotten worse because of it.

So let's imagine that everyone in church is free to have an opinion but we agree that the quality of the service and the communion would go downhill if they shared it.

I'm not trying to avoid opinions I don't like. In fact I follow more "opposing" voices in blogs, twitter, podcast etc than I ever have and hope to keep improving in that way. What I want is high quality thinking and argumentation, and that is not much in evidence here, nor would it be any better if I were to join the fray.

 

[Bugmenotor]

Soon the ministry of truth will remove or block acces to all the disinformation on the internet. Then our minds won’t be corrupted by wrong ideas. There are no such thing as weak arguments which can be refuted by stronger arguments. There is only one truth which will be decided by politicians and government officials and we will be happy.

 

[shabtek]

"The Entertainment" is deadly but you can't look away

 

[JohnRoberts]

Soon the ministry of truth will remove or block acces to all the disinformation on the internet. Then our minds won’t be corrupted by wrong ideas. There are no such thing as weak arguments which can be refuted by stronger arguments. There is only one truth which will be decided by politicians and government officials and we will be happy.

DHS Standing Up Disinformation Governance Board Led by Information Warfare Expert

 

[shabtek]

this is all just media, not reality,but a product to be sold and consumed.
reality is constructed around belief; ie belief election was stolen, or diy electronics fora discussion should relate to electronics
diy reality forum?the matrix?

David Wallace novel is prescient.
https://thebulletin.org/2018/04/defending-against-the-entertainment/

 

[fazer]

reality is constructed around belief;

Ain’t that the truth. You start investing time into other peoples beliefs and it creates passion and belonging. I’m sure if you could identify the underlying issue/drama, it would have nothing to do with what you originally thought.

 

[Dreams]

You gotta admit it's pretty funny that in a forum with multi-page threads about the correct ways to do double-blind a/b tests, someone puts a poll about the future of the brewery IN the brewery

I might think it's not really a great way to get a good range of opinions, but what do i know

The brewery is a big part of why i stopped spending time on this website, i suspect I'm not alone

 

[Tubetec]

Was I mistaken or were the poll results on display before , I cant seem to see them now .
It was a clear majority wanted to keep Brewery as is ,
I have found myself avoiding topics in Brewery , whatever your argument or viewpoint your entitled to it ,
I just dont see the need for the level of personal insult that goes on at times .

 

[JohnRoberts]

Was I mistaken or were the poll results on display before , I cant seem to see them now .
It was a clear majority wanted to keep Brewery as is ,
I have found myself avoiding topics in Brewery , whatever your argument or viewpoint your entitled to it ,
I just dont see the need for the level of personal insult that goes on at times .

the poll results are still visible, 66% or 21 of the 32 votes favor leaving it as it is.

So far you are the second self declared brewery threads avoider, who posted here today. You might be surprised but I ignore, or at least pause from responding to every single post that triggers me, some even mention me by name. If I want to get insulted I can just go to facebook where they don't have civility rules.

Most people don't enjoy arguments while I suspect some may (insert the old joke about rolling in the mud with pigs).

Personal insults are still against the rules while some members test the limits again and again. In my kingdom personal attacks against non-members wouldn't be allowed either. But I am not in charge, I just take out the trash... (I spam cleaned multiple sign up attempts today).

JR

PS: If this becomes contentious I can delete it. It doesn't seem to take much these days.

 

[sodderboy]

rock soderstrom said:

living sounds said:
Some speech deserves to get cancelled.

+1

So that's two German dudes weighing in. . . The whole point of The United States Constitution is that the right to free speech is not determined by a king, a chancellor, a bureaucrat, a committee, or caesar. That is something that the US shattered at it's founding. That said, groupdiy is not beholding to The Constitution, so they can do as they please, same as twitler and the rest.

So, they called a place here for non-diy stuff discussion "The Brewery" at a time before microbrew places popped-up like mushrooms all over the place. Quite prescient. There is a disclaimer regarding barstool preachers. . . Heed it if you are the sensitive type!
Mike

 

[scott2000]

lol..

 

[sodderboy]

livingsounds wrote:
I live in a country that descended into facism and genocide not long ago, and after that we instated some rules that limit free speech in certain instances. It's a fine line to walk. If you display a "Z" in public to show support for Putin's war of aggression in Germany, you will be subject to criminal prosecution. Some speech deserves to get cancelled.

I missed the memo regarding the "multi quote". I guess I'll "Let me google that for you" myself to learn about it. For now I am making my own quotes.
If you display a "Z"? That's really pathetic, sad. The punk in me would have a "Z" everywhere, worming it in with words. Would they pinch you for a "Zebra" t-shirt? Are there "Z Polizei" roaming the streets? Did they re-name "Zoo Station" "Oo Station"? There really isn't a good german word for bogus. . . I feel sorry for ya'll. . .
Mike

 

[JohnRoberts]

rock soderstrom said:

+1

So that's two German dudes weighing in. . .

Let's not tag him with the entire history of his country, we have our own skeletons in the closet.

The whole point of The United States Constitution is that the right to free speech is not determined by a king, a chancellor, a bureaucrat, a committee, or caesar. That is something that the US shattered at it's founding.

indeed the 1st amendment is first for a reason

That said, groupdiy is not beholding to The Constitution, so they can do as they please, same as twitler and the rest.

yes but...

a couple months ago a (?) poster was spewing a propaganda sounding rant in the ukraine thread. I suspected russian disinfo and deleted it, but the poster laid the 1st amendment protections argument on me and I restored his deleted post. I am glad that he ran out of interest shortly after that.

So, they called a place here for non-diy stuff discussion "The Brewery" at a time before microbrew places popped-up like mushrooms all over the place. Quite prescient. There is a disclaimer regarding barstool preachers. . . Heed it if you are the sensitive type!
Mike

"Kick back, relax, and shoot the breeze~ Warning: bar-stool preachers inside..."

I strongly believe in the constitution and the bill of rights (first ten amendments), and all the other amendments too. Ethan's skinny list of rules does not go quite that far. We have a good group here and there are far more important things to chew on.

Group hug?

JR

 

[rock soderstrom]

Let's not tag him with the entire history of his country, we have our own skeletons in the closet.

Thank you very much, that is very generous!

As we know my English is not good enough to go into the finer details here but still I would like to make a few points.

Groupdiy.com is not a USA event, that is a misconception. We are international, supranational in nature. That's just your immanent slightly inflated self-perception.

On the topic of free speech, I am a clear advocate for it. However, the experience in my country over the last almost 100 years shows that these rights can also be massively exploited by the opponents of freedom. Those guys invoke these rights in order to abolish them. This negative experience has led us Germans to create the concept of a "defensible democracy."

If you, for example, show a Hakenkreutz or the Russian equivalent "Z" or support the rape culture of your soldiers or deny any group of people the right to a self-determined existence, then freedom of speech no longer applies to you. Hate preaching is not covered by it. Our democracy is fighting back because of the negative experiences and that is a good thing.


Many of the positions mentioned here and in the other Ukraine thread, especially from overseas, sound very unworldly and overly self-centered to my ears.

Through my work with Ukrainian refugees, I find it difficult to give the Putin Nazi pigs and their supporters any normal standards of communication.

I am glad that the decision makers in the White House see it that way, too. Kudos for that.

PS: Sodderboy, you have no idea with whom you stand on one side. Your naive punk attitude is completely out of place and embarrassing. I'll be happy to send you some x-rays of the traces a chair leg leaves in the anus.

 

[rock soderstrom]

Group hug?

What's this nonsense again? I don't want to be fooled by you. Stop it! There's a serious issue there.

 

[JohnRoberts]

What's this nonsense again? I don't want to be fooled by you. Stop it! There's a serious issue there.

Who me? arguing about the brewery allowing religious/political discussions is not very serious, IMO.

Groupdiy.com is not a USA event, that is a misconception. We are international, supranational in nature. That's just your immanent slightly inflated self-perception.

more personal criticism?

I clearly view current events through my personal US centric world view, the majority of moderators here are not Americans.

On the topic of free speech, I am a clear advocate for it. However, the experience in my country over the last almost 100 years shows that these rights can also be massively exploited by the opponents of freedom. Those guys invoke these rights in order to abolish them. This negative experience has led us Germans to create the concept of a "defensible democracy."

?

If you, for example, show a Hakenkreutz or the Russian equivalent "Z" or support the rape culture of your soldiers or deny any group of people the right to a self-determined existence, then freedom of speech no longer applies to you. Hate preaching is not covered by it. Our democracy is fighting back because of the negative experiences and that is a good thing.

Many of the positions mentioned here and in the other Ukraine thread, especially from overseas, sound very unworldly and overly self-centered to my ears.

your opinion is noted.

Through my work with Ukrainian refugees, I find it difficult to give the Putin Nazi pigs and their supporters any normal standards of communication.

Putin claims that he is suppressing Nazis in Ukraine... The world is expecting some kind of declaration from Putin may 9th coincident with celebrating the Nazi surrender in WWII.

I am glad that the decision makers in the White House see it that way, too. Kudos for that.

it is not clear who the decision makers are in the white house but recently they have increased support for Ukraine

PS: Sodderboy, you have no idea with whom you stand on one side. Your naive punk attitude is completely out of place and embarrassing. I'll be happy to send you some x-rays of the traces a chair leg leaves in the anus.

Lets not make this personal with each other... I already asked him to not criticize Germany, do not escalate the ad hominem. (rule #4)

JR

 

[sodderboy]

rock soderstrom wrote:
PS: Sodderboy, you have no idea with whom you stand on one side. Your naive punk attitude is completely out of place and embarrassing. I'll be happy to send you some x-rays of the traces a chair leg leaves in the anus.

I have NULL interest whatsoever in your extra-curricular activities, bro. Any of us can show examples of human depravity. No one has a sanctimonious monopoly on that.

The whole point is WHO gets to decide what speech is cancellable? That's the beauty of the First Amendment. It transcended the rule of men by men to that of The Creator for the first time in history. Read again what I wrote- this forum is not beholdin' to The Constitution.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ (I'm going to sleep)