Ó Draighnáin
Well-known member
Anyone else struggling to believe that the Boeing Whistleblower John Barnett killed himself?
Whistleblower Dead
- Thread starter Ó Draighnáin
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
AnalogPackrat
Well-known member
Doesn't seem likely.
pucho812
Well-known member
yes it seems fishy
Reportedly that plane that suffered the door plug blowout had warnings. Cabin pressure alerts and passengers hearing whistles from air leaking out the loose door plug. I blame the airline that dragged their feet on responding to the warnings.
Coincidentally it was scheduled for a safety check right after that flight.
JR
PS: I suggest that the Boeing assembly workers be made to fly inside the planes that they just assembled, that might increase their focus on safety. Boeing is in discussions to purchase Spirit Aero systems the subcontractor that they spun out years ago.
Coincidentally it was scheduled for a safety check right after that flight.
JR
PS: I suggest that the Boeing assembly workers be made to fly inside the planes that they just assembled, that might increase their focus on safety. Boeing is in discussions to purchase Spirit Aero systems the subcontractor that they spun out years ago.
AnalogPackrat
Well-known member
The wheels and hydraulic leak issues fall squarely on airline maintenance groups, not the manufacturer. But Boeing has really gone downhill since they merged with MD and kept MD management which killed the engineering-centric corporate culture that made the company an aerospace leader for 80 years. It's similar to what Carly Fiorina did to Hewlett-Packard.
john12ax7
Well-known member
Better to make the ceo and management fly inside the planes, since they are the ones who actually implemented the safety last policies.
it is fashionable to blame wealthy executives but evidence suggests that most of the recent failures (like a wheel falling off) were related to dodgy airline maintenance.
The door plug that blew out appears to have been missing all four bolts, but it gets assembled and disassembled at least once during construction. So the last workers who touched it, and/or quality control who checked it last are responsible. But like I already shared they had warnings that something was amiss, like leaking cabin pressure.
There is plenty of blame to go around but I suspect making the actual line workers fly the planes might focus their attention on assembly safety. The maintenance staff who ignored the warnings are complicit. I hear that there is a criminal investigation being undertaken. While Boeing is liable for civil damages, it will be interesting to see who is held criminally responsible.
JR
john12ax7
Well-known member
If you read the history of the company you will see the issues coincide with the shift towards profit and share price, essentially the McDonnell Douglas way took over from the OG Boeing way.
No actual criminal charges will happen, although they should. Corporate protections are much too strong.
Travel sites are making picking the airplane a more prominent feature. It's about the only recourse the public has.
No actual criminal charges will happen, although they should. Corporate protections are much too strong.
Travel sites are making picking the airplane a more prominent feature. It's about the only recourse the public has.
Last edited:
living sounds
Well-known member
The buck starts at (with?) the top (management). It's called organisational culpability. Why were there no sufficient safety checks? Why did hiring procedures allow for workers that don't put bolts on? Etc.
Ironically, people now defending CEOs are usually the first ones to laud the wisdom, foresight and brilliance of "wealthy executives" if a company does well...
Ironically, people now defending CEOs are usually the first ones to laud the wisdom, foresight and brilliance of "wealthy executives" if a company does well...
Boeing is in a world of hurt with bad decisions from the top that trickles down to the workers moral. Their stock price has fallen significantly and with hiding the problems with the stabilizer and software controlling it along with the FAA allowing Boeing to investigate and hide the evidence of the problems with their planes (nose diving into the ground) they have created a giant hole to dig themselves out of. Airlines have cancelled contracts and are pursuing different
Manufactured planes along with airlines allowing people to cancel flying on the planes with breakaway doors due to construction or maintenance problems. Time to overhaul the company.
Manufactured planes along with airlines allowing people to cancel flying on the planes with breakaway doors due to construction or maintenance problems. Time to overhaul the company.
I am long Boeing stock and not jumping ship yet.... The stock price is almost cheap enough to buy more, but hell no at my age. 
Boeing is in a duopoly with air bus so they just about have a license to print money selling aircraft until a 3rd player can rise to compete with them. AND Boeing has a significant business outside passenger aircraft. None on the immediate horizon while China is trying.
The airline business works on a long time frame and Boeing has lots of aircraft sold and sitting on backorder. Their problem from this recent drama is that regulators are clamping down even tighter on their safety inspections slowing deliveries. Major customers like SouthWest airlines are cutting back on hiring and reducing schedules to accommodate the slower deliveries.
Like a bad taco this too will pass....
JR
Boeing is in a duopoly with air bus so they just about have a license to print money selling aircraft until a 3rd player can rise to compete with them. AND Boeing has a significant business outside passenger aircraft. None on the immediate horizon while China is trying.
The airline business works on a long time frame and Boeing has lots of aircraft sold and sitting on backorder. Their problem from this recent drama is that regulators are clamping down even tighter on their safety inspections slowing deliveries. Major customers like SouthWest airlines are cutting back on hiring and reducing schedules to accommodate the slower deliveries.
Like a bad taco this too will pass....
JR
AnalogPackrat
Well-known member
DEI-focus instead of capability focused hiring isn't helping.
Some executives actually do good work and help create a functional culture. When I worked at KLA-Tencor in 1997 the original founder of KLA, Ken Levy, was still in the E-suite. He made it a point to eat in the company cafeteria a couple of times a week where he would choose a random table and sit with employees to keep his finger on the pulse. Sharp guy. After he semi-retired the new CEO came in...arrogant jerk. I think he got nailed for options back-dating some years later. Good leaders matter.
The shift from longer term investment and growth to quarterly results reporting has had a negative impact on how most publicly traded companies are run. You should blame Wall Street for this more than executives.
Last edited:
pucho812
Well-known member
At the end of the day it doesn't matter who is at fault, what matters is the headline and what damage it may do and fixing the problem. Boeing could do a million things correctly, have a million flights with zero issues and the media will focus on the one time something went wrong. In turn the public will get a bad taste in their mouths. I don't blame Boeing, they clearly have been making things up to snuff for sometime. But, clearly prolonging necessary maintenance on aircraft is going to cost everyone in the long run. So who is at fault there boing or the airline?
What about the Max that lost gauges and fell 500 ft?
How much do you want to pay for a ticket?
Air Force 1 never crashes,
But it cost 200,000 an hour to operate.
737 Max costs 8,500 an hour to operate.
If you want to pay 10,000 a ticket I bet they could make things safer. There us a balance point in there, trouble vs profit. Still a pretty good record, considering 45,000 flights a day and 2.9 million passengers.
I see a lot of cars broke down and they do not handle anything near the stress of a jet and jets are far more complicated with about 10 million parts.
Have you seen how long it takes to make a carbon fiber fan blade? Done pretty much by hand. If hey can get that cost down maybe they can spend more more on routine maintenance.
Environmental and business issues make planes less dependable. More heat in the combustion chambers, bigger bypass ratios for noise and mileage, options for airlines to increase profits like door plugs. If I owned Boeing, it would be no door plugs. You want a jet with a custom configuration? You pay for a custom jet. Me, I prefer a complete fuselage, not a patchwork quilt.
My dad was an aeronautical engineer, he says the planes are fine, its the people who fly them and work on them that are the problem. He was a wing man. Heard him talking in his sleep, "less drag! We must have less drag!" Did everything with a slide rule.
He did the first supersonic jets, X 7 , X 11, then the Polaris submarine, then the wings for the Rockwell B1, have you seen that monster? Then he worked as a consultant for Boeing, then did the first carbon fiber jet which was a Lear Jet, 30 years before Boeing started using carbon fiber. Then he croaked from cancer, too much time in Los Alamos working on stuff he could not talk about. He hated working on stuff that kills people but had to pay the rent.
How much do you want to pay for a ticket?
Air Force 1 never crashes,
But it cost 200,000 an hour to operate.
737 Max costs 8,500 an hour to operate.
If you want to pay 10,000 a ticket I bet they could make things safer. There us a balance point in there, trouble vs profit. Still a pretty good record, considering 45,000 flights a day and 2.9 million passengers.
I see a lot of cars broke down and they do not handle anything near the stress of a jet and jets are far more complicated with about 10 million parts.
Have you seen how long it takes to make a carbon fiber fan blade? Done pretty much by hand. If hey can get that cost down maybe they can spend more more on routine maintenance.
Environmental and business issues make planes less dependable. More heat in the combustion chambers, bigger bypass ratios for noise and mileage, options for airlines to increase profits like door plugs. If I owned Boeing, it would be no door plugs. You want a jet with a custom configuration? You pay for a custom jet. Me, I prefer a complete fuselage, not a patchwork quilt.
My dad was an aeronautical engineer, he says the planes are fine, its the people who fly them and work on them that are the problem. He was a wing man. Heard him talking in his sleep, "less drag! We must have less drag!" Did everything with a slide rule.
He did the first supersonic jets, X 7 , X 11, then the Polaris submarine, then the wings for the Rockwell B1, have you seen that monster? Then he worked as a consultant for Boeing, then did the first carbon fiber jet which was a Lear Jet, 30 years before Boeing started using carbon fiber. Then he croaked from cancer, too much time in Los Alamos working on stuff he could not talk about. He hated working on stuff that kills people but had to pay the rent.
Last edited:
I don't know what universe you live in, John, but in my universe that's patently untrue. FFS, man, they've even been caught lying to the FAA.
And every failure has been a multiple. There were problems with a number of doors. Wheels have fallen off before. Etc. Just the latest (leaks in hydraulic and fuel systems) is new and hasn't got any multiples yet. But that news is just 12 hours old...
Then there's this:
How's that the fault of missing maintenance?
Then there's the wiring issues on ALL 737 Max planes. Maintenance?
If this was a Chinese plane, you'd be all over it.
There are quality control issues in every business. They just get amplified in the aircraft industry because of a thing called gravity.
The best QC guys are the ones you can get high with at lunch and have them sign off. An over zealous QC guy can really screw things up .
The best QC guys are the ones you can get high with at lunch and have them sign off. An over zealous QC guy can really screw things up .
living sounds
Well-known member
Yes, and you can blame Friedman and other neoliberal thinkers (and think-tanks) for pushing the shareholder-value narrative.
AnalogPackrat
Well-known member
Shareholder value should be strategic, that is long term. Wise investments in growth and innovation are good (where ROI is key) and include training and retaining quality employees. The Wall Street focus on simplistic metrics (so-called "fundamentals") which fail to measure many meaningful parameters of actual business performance are a big problem. You miss the mark again with your baseless ad hominem.
Last edited:
