living sounds
Well-known member
Shareholder value = focus on short-term goals.
Whistleblower Dead
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AnalogPackrat
Well-known member
LOL
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/shareholder-value.asp
Minimal but effective regulation is what reins in the negative effects of profit-driven corporations. Preventing monopolies, enforcing environmental laws, and such are examples.
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living sounds
Well-known member
AnalogPackrat
Well-known member
Where is there a short term focus in that doctrine?
And as for the 2008-09 crash, first regulators failed to notice what was happening. Second we, the taxpayers, should not have been forced to bail the asshats out. They took the risk, they should suffer the consequences of their decisions. I think Friedman would agree.
There are six million parts in a 747. At 45,000 flights a day you have 2,700,000,000,000 parts flying around. Stuff is gonna happen. Usually in bunches. Then it gets quiet again.
Add software to the physical stuff and now you are fighting some odds.
Add to that the managers who are pressured to keep the planes rolling off the line. Games are going to he played.
Add software to the physical stuff and now you are fighting some odds.
Add to that the managers who are pressured to keep the planes rolling off the line. Games are going to he played.
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One could worry about the increasing automation and software systems.
I saw one recent report about a "technical event" (nosedive) related to a 787-9 that injured 50 passengers.
JR
I saw one recent report about a "technical event" (nosedive) related to a 787-9 that injured 50 passengers.
JR
I finally heard about what happened with that door plug blowout.
During assembly the airframe arrived from a sub contractor with bad rivets(?) that needed to be drilled out and replaced. The factory chose to perform the rivet repairs later, out of sequence. During that out of sequence repair the door plug was removed and reinstalled without the 4 critical bolts. These out of sequence construction operations are so common that they have a name "traveling" steps or operations.
In hindsight the remedy to always stay in proper sequence would be incredibly expensive and slow throughput even more. Forcing repeats of QA checks/sign-offs seems obvious, but recheck what? I nominate door plugs to re-check.
Hopefully they won't make this same mistake again.
JR
During assembly the airframe arrived from a sub contractor with bad rivets(?) that needed to be drilled out and replaced. The factory chose to perform the rivet repairs later, out of sequence. During that out of sequence repair the door plug was removed and reinstalled without the 4 critical bolts. These out of sequence construction operations are so common that they have a name "traveling" steps or operations.
In hindsight the remedy to always stay in proper sequence would be incredibly expensive and slow throughput even more. Forcing repeats of QA checks/sign-offs seems obvious, but recheck what? I nominate door plugs to re-check.
Hopefully they won't make this same mistake again.
JR
Maybe design that door plug so that stress holds it in place instead of releasing it, maybe not possible but who knows,
Or you could close down all the medical marijuana shops near Everett, like the Green Lady and Bud Commander, or Macs Tea Room or the Sweat Leaf,
This endo stuff they got out nowadays can make you forget your name in ten minutes,
Or just fill out the travel tag correctly,
Or you could close down all the medical marijuana shops near Everett, like the Green Lady and Bud Commander, or Macs Tea Room or the Sweat Leaf,
This endo stuff they got out nowadays can make you forget your name in ten minutes,
Or just fill out the travel tag correctly,
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If the edges were angled that could help but then the door plugs would have to be installed from inside the plane. I suspect there is significant pressure at altitude. The plug is secured by 4 steel bolts. "Once these bolts are installed, they are secured using castle nuts and cotter pins. Outboard motion of the plug is prevented by 12 stop fittings (6 along each forward and aft edge) installed on the fuselage door frame structure," the NTSB said.
Apparently the "stop fittings" didn't stop it.
It appears that the 4 bolts were the two lower hinge assemblies, and the two upper guide fittings.
I'm more worried about them running over workers driving fork lifts while high.
I am not even a little curious about the modern whacky tobacky, devil's lettuce, etc. A few decades of breeding to maximize THC content apparently worked. I did my share back in the 60's but long ago said bye-bye to Puff the magic dragon.
JR
scott2000
Well-known member
I was talking with a Delta pilot a few months who flies a Boeing, not the max, and he said something to the effect that if they didn't try to patch them together to make them bigger, there wouldn't be issues....but I'm not sure I remember the conversation correctly...
Interesting to see the configured to carry more passengers text though...
Interesting to see the configured to carry more passengers text though...
Man that is a cheap way of doing that, since the emergency door is meant to open outward, the door plug has to open outward too.
Amazing the door guide held for so long without the bolts. Those hinges can slide in and out of the plug, they need some locking pins in that thing just in case. If the plug were not able to wander upward on those hinge legs, it never would gave unhooked at the top.
I bet the air noise was coming g from the top if the plug.
I would have put a flange on the inside if that door jam so that the plug would be held in place by cabin pressure. Kind if like a man hole cover. But every gram of weight is watched carefully which us what probably drove the design. Look at those safety cables that got snapped like a dry twig in a stiff desert breeze when that door cut loose. They are probably just there to keep the door plug off the concrete floor during Inspection. If they didn't break they might gave ripped the side if the plane out.
Could you imagine if that plug cut loose at 30,000 feet good lordy,
You know, I don't this this is a design problem. I mean if you can't install or tighten bolts on an airplane there is something really wrong with the system. Think if all the engineering and statistics and modeling and failure analysis that gas gone into making jets ultra reliable. Loose or missing bolts has to be the most basic thing on the list of accident prevention to the point where it us probably driving some engineers insane, the ones who who look at cracks in turbine blades with electron microscopes or the ones that use a Cray computer to analyze gas flow in an annular combustion chamber. Yes I bet the brainiacs at big B are tearing their hair out over this one. What's next? Forgot to gas up before crossing the pacific ocean?
Amazing the door guide held for so long without the bolts. Those hinges can slide in and out of the plug, they need some locking pins in that thing just in case. If the plug were not able to wander upward on those hinge legs, it never would gave unhooked at the top.
I bet the air noise was coming g from the top if the plug.
I would have put a flange on the inside if that door jam so that the plug would be held in place by cabin pressure. Kind if like a man hole cover. But every gram of weight is watched carefully which us what probably drove the design. Look at those safety cables that got snapped like a dry twig in a stiff desert breeze when that door cut loose. They are probably just there to keep the door plug off the concrete floor during Inspection. If they didn't break they might gave ripped the side if the plane out.
Could you imagine if that plug cut loose at 30,000 feet good lordy,
You know, I don't this this is a design problem. I mean if you can't install or tighten bolts on an airplane there is something really wrong with the system. Think if all the engineering and statistics and modeling and failure analysis that gas gone into making jets ultra reliable. Loose or missing bolts has to be the most basic thing on the list of accident prevention to the point where it us probably driving some engineers insane, the ones who who look at cracks in turbine blades with electron microscopes or the ones that use a Cray computer to analyze gas flow in an annular combustion chamber. Yes I bet the brainiacs at big B are tearing their hair out over this one. What's next? Forgot to gas up before crossing the pacific ocean?
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The problems in aviation are very much like those in the car industry. Over-development.
It's the fact Boeing tried to cover up is worrying. If there's a real disaster, will it be a criminal case against persons, or will Boeing "absorb" the shock? Remember also Boeing used to do it's own testing for the FAA, a privilege that has understandingly been reversed.
Both industries appear to have execs override engineer's decisions. With sometimes disastrous results. A case from the carmakers, is Stellantis' current problem with the distribution belt in a number of engines. You could blame them, but the competition seems to have the same problems.
Remember the exhaust scandal with VW? Most competitors did the same. Made me feel naive, as it was unexpected for me. A bit dirty too, as I've worked for the car industry.
But I certainly didn't expect that kind of criminal behaviour in the airplane sector. Boeing lost some engineers lately, I've been told. I can hear board members say: "We'll rehire when needed"...
It's the fact Boeing tried to cover up is worrying. If there's a real disaster, will it be a criminal case against persons, or will Boeing "absorb" the shock? Remember also Boeing used to do it's own testing for the FAA, a privilege that has understandingly been reversed.
Both industries appear to have execs override engineer's decisions. With sometimes disastrous results. A case from the carmakers, is Stellantis' current problem with the distribution belt in a number of engines. You could blame them, but the competition seems to have the same problems.
Remember the exhaust scandal with VW? Most competitors did the same. Made me feel naive, as it was unexpected for me. A bit dirty too, as I've worked for the car industry.
But I certainly didn't expect that kind of criminal behaviour in the airplane sector. Boeing lost some engineers lately, I've been told. I can hear board members say: "We'll rehire when needed"...
scott2000
Well-known member
ot....just saw something that said basically as many people here die from fentanyl overdoses every day as would be a normal load of passengers on one of these.
Is kinda weird to think that if we lost a Boeing full of passengers every day, would seem like a bigger deal...
Maybe it's the choice to use drugs that could kill you thing.... the choice to use planes that could a little different....
Is kinda weird to think that if we lost a Boeing full of passengers every day, would seem like a bigger deal...
Maybe it's the choice to use drugs that could kill you thing.... the choice to use planes that could a little different....
A quick web search reveals that worldwide >150K people die every day. It is human nature to somewhat devalue massively repetitive events.
Modern media amplifies and/or attenuates news events to gain viewers or promote ideology.
JR
living sounds
Well-known member
It's also the idea of being a completely helpless passenger (with zero control over what happens) at 10k miles height flying really fast. Plus, most of us have done this many times. On the other hand, the idea of injecting a black market substance with a needle into my body is repulsive and absurd to me, and probably most of us here.
Bottom line is, we are really bad at objectively assessing risks and acting on them properly. We are worse at assessing abstract long-term risks. If people could see the scenarios playing out for their grandchildren, they would mostly act much differently wrt to climate change and similar problems.
I have never flown at 10k miles height. The highest I think (60k feet) was in an air force transport flying over to Germany for NATO maneuvers.
Many (most) people killed by fentanyl are ingesting fake pills with fentanyl mixed in. I guess fentanyl laced vitamins could kill old farts like me.
JR
scott2000
Well-known member
Well, annual hospital aquired infections/deaths is right up there too....so there's that...
living sounds
Well-known member
10 kilometers, of course.I have never flown at 10k miles height. The highest I think (60k feet) was in an air force transport flying over to Germany for NATO maneuvers.
Many (most) people killed by fentanyl are ingesting fake pills with fentanyl mixed in. I guess fentanyl laced vitamins could kill old farts like me.
JR
The biggest cause of death is birth.
