Woke Madness

[hodad]

Just a brief return to Charlottesville:  I didn't understand the "Jews will not replace us" chant until long after I heard it.  It actually kind of baffled me--it was pretty obviously anti-semitic, buwhat did it mean?  I finally found out when I encountered an article about the Great Replacement Theory.  Some mighty fine racist conspiracy nuts up there  in Charlottesville.  Trump's base. 

(random article that came up on a search for Great Replacement Theory:  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/05/great-replacement-theory-alt-right-killers-el-paso) 

 

[midwayfair]

Well to be fair, there's calls for all kinds of changes going around that have nothing to do with covid:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2020/09/01/dc-building-school-renaming/

But it's not like anyone in the U.S.* tries to be sneaky about renaming buildings and parks or removing statues, they do it because they believe it's the right thing to do, they have supporters who actually live in their area who vote for them that applaud it, and the zeitgeist makes it more palatable to some people in the middle. Most of the time when a politician decides to remove a statue or rename a park, there's in fact overwhelming support so the politician says, "Look how I'm doing what you want (some restrictions apply)!" Or, in the case of a business, "See! It's cool to buy our stuff because look how tuned in we are (just don't check back in three weeks after this all blows over)!"

I know the BBC isn't exactly a "business" and only sort of "government", but how often does a corporation of any sort do something because they think it's the right thing to do but needs hide what they're doing?

*I don't know anything about the statues sort of stuff in Britain, but I do read/listen to the BBC stuff published for American audiences sometimes, which I also understand might be different in some cases from what's in the U.K. So grain of salt for all of this. I really am just mostly mystified by the entire impetus of this situation.

 

[iturnknobs]

Yes, it is important. The silent majority just kicked the ass of the vocal minority. About time too.

Cheers

Ian

In our country, the vocal minority still kicks the ass of the vocal majority. They do it generally in a hateful and insensitive manner... there is madness in our country and it sure isn't because they're woke. This flag just popped up 4 houses down from me. IMO, I must choose who to side with. Choice made. Your insensitivity is noted. Congrats on the "win".

 

[rob_gould]

The thing that sparked this thread was people speculating that the BBC dropped it because of the lyrics.

The BBC has consistently said that they didn't want to put a bunch of singers on stage. They said it again when they announced the reversal of their decision:
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-53998584

It's not like the BBC issued conflicting reports about why it was doing the songs as instrumentals. And instead of just believing the BBC about the safety concerns during a goddamn pandemic and not asking some singers to put their livelihoods in danger because everyone couldn't just sing at home, a bunch of people now get to claim that they won some sort of victory against people who were just making stuff up in the first place. I mean, I'm sure they'll test everyone who is going to be performing and the chance of them infecting or being infected is probably low*, but it really is just selfish to ask singers to put themselves on the line to keep everyone from singing at home on their own. Doesn't sound like much of a victory to me, defeating an enemy that doesn't exist and putting people in danger needlessly.

My questions are: Why didn't people just believe the BBC when they said it wasn't some "woke madness" as the title claims but simple safety concerns? Why is the BBC's official statement less convincing than random people online people who don't work there? Any why was the seemingly only acceptable solution for some people to have real live humans on stage singing?

*EDIT: I feel I need to acknowledge that you folks are doing better than many parts of the U.S. right now, but it still feels like unnecessary danger to me.

The short answer is that concern for facts and truth dried up a long time ago in many quarters. 

The right wing press takes the brunt of the blame for stoking 'us and them' narratives, but the truth is that the media on both 'sides' fans the flames by giving people what they want to hear, and most people are happy to base their thoughts, opinions and feelings on the spin and the rhetoric, rather than putting in the time and effort to dig in and search for the truth.

 

[fazer]

Unfettered media consumption skews our perception of the present

From a National Geographic article.  “ Why every year—but especially 2020—feels like the worst ever”

Nothing new here.  But the only madness I see is from the media.  But living in the suburbs and moving to the country soon isolated me from woke or left/right madness.  If you live downtown near the capital,  it’s something to see with your own eyes.  But that’s for a different breed.

 

[scott2000]

Just came across this ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W53LW4kS8RM

 

[boji]

Your insensitivity is noted. Congrats on the "win".

I can sympathize with your first-pass feelings on the flag meme, but the war of public debate has been crushed using all the feels, producing the silent majority/minority.  Likening it to a marriage, if the spouse has gone quiet and unresponsive...

 

[ruffrecords]

and most people are happy to base their thoughts, opinions and feelings on the spin and the rhetoric, rather than putting in the time and effort to dig in and search for the truth.

How can you possibly know what most people think and feel.?

Cheers

Ian

 

[Winston OBoogie]

I'm struggling to see what the big victory was regarding Last Night Of The Proms.  From the very start, the BBC said that next year, when the audience is back, then it would be business as usual as far as lyrics.  I posted the BBC news page at the start of this thread which stated as much.   

As for this year, I've personally enjoyed what I've listened to thus far.  I found the performances and production more intimate, and I've also  enjoyed hearing the acoustic of the Albert Hall minus the audience. 

This and the Adele story are just silly distractions.  There are much greater issues that need attention than this nonsense. 

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Elgar's own thoughts on  "Land Of Hope..."  written in his diary:


"11th November, 1918 -  The war is over, thank God. What a terrible, cruel waste of life there has been. Alice and I went to the Coliseum tonight and they played Land Of Hope And Glory not once, but twice; the whole audience joined in.

I could not. I regret very profoundly how this song has become an anthem to war. There’s been so much sorrow and sacrifice over the last four years; nothing glorious about it. The world is a changed place and I am awfully tired of it. "

 

[ruffrecords]

This and the Adele story are just silly distractions. 

They are simply examples of the deeper underlying problem

There are much greater issues that need attention than this nonsense.

Once again, they merely illustrate the underlying problem, in the same way the death of a black man at the hands of the police also illustrates that particular deeper underlying problem.

Cheers

Ian

 

[ruffrecords]

Elgar's own thoughts on  "Land Of Hope..."  written in his diary:


"11th November, 1918 -  The war is over, thank God. What a terrible, cruel waste of life there has been. Alice and I went to the Coliseum tonight and they played Land Of Hope And Glory not once, but twice; the whole audience joined in.

I could not. I regret very profoundly how this song has become an anthem to war. There’s been so much sorrow and sacrifice over the last four years; nothing glorious about it. The world is a changed place and I am awfully tired of it. "

Considering there were two world wars last century and many smaller conflicts, I see the words more as a celebration of the victory of freedom over oppression. The human cost of those wars was huge, not only in terms of those that died but the untreated PTSD of vast numbers of survivors both military and civilian. The price paid for our freedom today was incredibly high and I for one will not forget their sacrifice.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Winston OBoogie]

They are simply examples of the deeper underlying problemOnce again, they merely illustrate the underlying problem, in the same way the death of a black man at the hands of the police also illustrates that particular deeper underlying problem.

Sure, there are underlying problems. 

But the Proms story was a 100% manufactured controversy.  The decision to not  have singing this year was *never*  anything  at all to do with Black Lives Matter or 'wokeism',  that  was a story completely engineered by media.    And suddenly,  people  who don't even watch the Proms or like music  (Nigel Farage) were up in arms.   

The Adele story is much of the same, I don't know anyone who is a person of colour that was offended by her hairstyle.   

You see much of this stuff if you troll social media - I saw one today that said Facebook is banning The Lords Prayer so as not to offend Muslims.  This is patently false.  But it's intended to get certain types of people (xenophobes who don't fact check) angry. 

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Considering there were two world wars last century and many smaller conflicts, I see the words more as a celebration of the victory of freedom over oppression. The human cost of those wars was huge, not only in terms of those that died but the untreated PTSD of vast numbers of survivors both military and civilian. The price paid for our freedom today was incredibly high and I for one will not forget their sacrifice.

We don't disagree on the human cost of war, nor on honoring those who sacrificed, including the millions of non combatants that have died as a consequence.

I was merely pointing out  the thoughts of the actual composer of Land Of Hope And Glory (Pomp & Circumstance) on what the song had come to represent by the end of WW1.   
He saw no glory in war, nor in white colonialism on which he was quite vocal in his disdain. 

I just remembered a little factoid -  In the wake of the September 11th attacks in New York,  The Last Night Of The Proms did not play Rule Britannia and Land Of... that year,  but instead  played the American composer Samuel Barber's 'Adagio ForStrings'. 
It was very moving. 

 

[living sounds]

How about some reflection about the fact that the people who get all worked up about these manufactured non-issues are the very same ones who call young people protesting injustices and the destruction of the environment "snowflakes"...

 

[rob_gould]

How can you possibly know what most people think and feel.?

Cheers

Ian

I'd say my opinions on 'most people' are about  as valid as your feelings about 'the silent majority' on the last page  ;D

 

[ruffrecords]

Sure, there are underlying problems. 

But the Proms story was a 100% manufactured controversy. 

That is a bold assertion. Please cite your evidence.

The Adele story is much of the same, I don't know anyone who is a person of colour that was offended by her hairstyle.   

The journalist I mentioned in the original post about Adele is black.

Cheers

Ian

 

[ruffrecords]

I'd say my opinions on 'most people' are about  as valid as your feelings about 'the silent majority' on the last page  ;D

Then we must both agree not to post our opinions in a manner that implies they are established facts.

Cheers

Ian

 

[boji]

How about some reflection about the fact that the people who get all worked up about these manufactured non-issues are the very same ones who call young people protesting injustices and the destruction of the environment "snowflakes"...

They are a terrible pall on society these trolls, making daguerreotypes out of the opposition.  ;D
We should snatch em' up and put them in camps for reprogramming⸮

Indeed, how about some reflection.

 

[Winston OBoogie]

That is a bold assertion. Please cite your evidence.

Absolutely.  The story was initially peddled by The Sunday Times, and was then picked up by all the other right-wing media.

You yourself started this thread on 25th August.  Here is the BBC's  story from the same date:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53895000

Although non of the usual suspects in the right wing press acknowledged this response, plenty of centre or left leaning press did.  One can easily search articles from August 25th/26th ,  they are out there in the dozens.   

Here's just one: 

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/rule-britannia-bbc-proms-boris-johnson-latest-last-night-a9688781.html


There are scads more. 

The journalist I mentioned in the original post about Adele is black.

He is a guy who has a history of pushing this agenda against pop stars and ,in this instance, it was a series of personal tweets he made, not journalism.  He was quickly shot down by plenty of black people, including those who are close to the BLM movement.

So, hardly top notch journalism by any stretch, and not even written for a paper.  Although, again, plenty of media on the right picked up the ball and ran with it.