Igor

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« on: January 29, 2008, 07:52:49 PM »
Hi guys!
Here will be posted info for 33609 builders.


Will try to help with this when have free time minute ;)

Take some patience for my english ;)

Please note, this tread for education purpose only.
I can't care for any damage etc if you throw this unit onto
your neighbour from 9th floor, electricity shock, so on.

PCB's and cases were offered there.

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=25172

Complete manual:

(right-click, save as...)
http://www.ams-neve.com/downloads_all/files/Outboard/33609JD.pdf

Schem for reference:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/33609_SCHEM_VOLT.jpg

Errata: If you look at the signal output, on the right of the pic called "33609_SCHEM_VOLT.jpg", the numbers differs from the PCB.

1 HI
2 GND
3 LOW

THIS IS CORRECT...


PCB parts placement:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/33609_1_2_FRONT_PCB.gif
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/33609_1_2_MAIN_PCB.gif

CABLES:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/CABLES.gif

Switches and misc stuff:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/limitREC_sw.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/limitLVL_sw.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/gainMU_sw.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/compTHR_sw.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/compREC_sw.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/compRAT_sw.jpg

BA340 rea-layed (same pinout)

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/340_sch.gif
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/340_pcb.gif

Test proc:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/TestProc5.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/TestProc4.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/TestProc3.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/TestProc2.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/TestProc1.jpg

simplified version

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=26218&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60


Misc parts:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/j109.gif

(more later)

BOM with some Farnell ordercodes

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/33609BOM1.gif
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/33609BOM2.gif
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/33609BOM3.gif

Photos scope shots etc
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/IJR/diy_33609_big_1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/IJR/diy_33609_big_2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/IJR/diy_33609_big_3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/IJR/diy_33609_big_4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/IJR/diy_33609_big_5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/IJR/diy_33609_big_6.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/diy_33609_9.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/dut2.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/elma_1.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/elma_2.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/elma_3.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/com_a1.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/com_a1a.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/com_a2.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/20ksqwave.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/com100.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/com_800.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/com_1500.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/com_a2a.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/com_att.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/com_rel_ripple.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/lim_50.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/lim100.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/lim200.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/lim800.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/lim_a1.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/lim_a2.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/lim_att_fast.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/lim_att_ripple.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/lim_att_slow.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/s_n1.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/s_n1a.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/tp_3_4_freqresp1k.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/tp_3_4_freqresp20hz.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/tp_3_4_freqresp20k.jpg

Finnished unit:
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/PIC_0120.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/PIC_0115.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/PIC_0122.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/PIC_0129.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/vu_back.jpg

Links:

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=25931
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=25172
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=8934
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=21391
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=20434
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=304
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=312

Version 2 pcb's:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/pannel.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/PIC_0570.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/PIC_0575.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/PIC_0585.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/PIC_0586.jpg

Power supply:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/ps.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/diy33609/POWER_SUPP_33609.gif

One little thing about bypass relays.

In case of use of 12v relays, put 12v jumper to connect relays in series, if 24v relays used, put two jumpers marked 24v for parallel connection.

Jumpers are located on top side of pcb beetween relays, they looks as smd pads.
http://www.ij-audio.com
(new site hopefully will be up in July)


ruairioflaherty

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2008, 08:08:04 PM »
Hey Igor,

thanks for offering this project - I'm seriously excited about building this.  Are we locked into using Lorlins for everything but the threshold switches?  I'm building one of mine with original iron and I'd like to go Elma all the way.  Is the only way to wire off the board or is there a high quality rotary that shares the same footprint as the Lorlin?

All the best,
Ruairi

Igor

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2008, 08:16:07 PM »
IIRC there's Grayhills with same layout ;)
http://www.ij-audio.com
(new site hopefully will be up in July)

ruairioflaherty

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2008, 08:23:36 PM »
Excellent, I'll do some research...

Cheers,
Ruairi

Bryson

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2008, 01:22:31 AM »
---

Yellowguy

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2008, 04:26:15 AM »
What about PSU for this project?

CroatianSensation

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2008, 05:05:15 AM »
Igor,

You are THE MAN!!


 :thumb:  :thumb:  :guinness:
A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open. -FZ

Tubefreak

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2008, 05:11:22 AM »
Thanks for the great project.

Before I start building mine, I was wondering what the options are for audio transformers. Is it possible to make a short list of compatible transformers?

And are there any side chain options? Couldn't find any info on that topic.

Maarten

Tubefreak

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2008, 01:11:22 PM »
This is the info I found, but PLEASE add your info. This list is compiled from several searches and can't garantee it's accuracy.

T1 Interstage
Belclere TF10015

T2 Input 1:2 (600:2k4)
Belclere TF10016
St Ive's/Marinair 31267
St Ive's/Marinair 10468
Sowter 9002
Lundahl LL1538
Lundahl LL1538XL
?Lundahl LL1540?
?Lundahl LL1531?
OEP A262A2E
OEP A262A3E


T3 Output 2:1
All mentioned in T2 with reverse wiring?
Belclere TF12009
Belclere TF10009
Belclere TF10008
LO1173 (8db)
LO2567 (10dB)
T1751
T0129
Carnhill VT22761
Carnhill VT26247
Marinair T1684
Marinair T1685
Marinair T1686

handy links
http://www.vintagedesign.se/transformer_cross_table.htm
http://www.jlmaudio.com/Neve%20transformer%20info.htm
http://www.technicalaudio.com/reading/neve_xfmrs/neve_edo7113.html

Tekay

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2008, 02:23:02 PM »
T2 is a step-down transformer 10k:2k4 / ~2:1, TF10016, L31267 or similar
T1 is a step-up transformer 1k2:4k8 / 1:2, TF10015 or L10468 or similar

T3 is step-up transformer 70:600 / ~1:2.5 (+8dB) TF12009, L1173 or similar.

If you use an outputtransformer with an other ratio your limiterthreshold will not track as the limiter section is made to be feeded from a low impedance sorce 8dB below the outputlevel.
Thomas "TK" Kristiansson
----------------------------------
"The Sound Is In The Iron"
www.vintagedesign.se  www.tkaudio.se


Igor

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2008, 03:08:37 PM »
Regarding trunny's, psb fits TF10016, 31267, OEP A262A2E, LL1540,
 LL1532 as input, TF10015, 10468, LL1528, OEP A262A2E as interstage. Some others can be used too.

There's enough "spare" on trimpot RV1 to give same output with 1:2
output trunny, and limiter section can be adjusted to track properly.
Just use RV4 50k instead of 10k.
http://www.ij-audio.com
(new site hopefully will be up in July)

Tubefreak

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2008, 03:38:54 PM »
Any good places to find those vintage transformers for the original feel?

If I'm correct, Sowter would be possible too:
T2
Sowter 9165 (2+2:1+1, 10k/2k4, +24dBu)
(replacement for 31267 according to Sowter)

T1
Sowter 9145 (1+1:2+2, 1k2/4k8, +10dBu)
(replacement for 10468 according to Sowter)


If you can't find original xformers for T3, what would you guys recommend?
Maarten

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2008, 06:11:40 PM »
Igor,
what size does the power transformer need to be in VA?
24v i'm assuming?

Igor

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2008, 06:17:06 PM »
There's a lot of output trunny's which can work fine and sound
like a charm there. Edcor, UTC, Sowter, possible to use API output clones...it is all up to your taste.
Not necessary to use 1:2.5 ratio, 1:2 trafo will work fine there.
For power supply trafo, 24v 1a, toroidal trunny preferred.
Power supply diodes, generally 1n5400 kinda stuff.
http://www.ij-audio.com
(new site hopefully will be up in July)

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2008, 06:22:23 PM »
d-leted

Igor

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2008, 06:30:00 PM »
BOM uploaded
See 1st page
http://www.ij-audio.com
(new site hopefully will be up in July)

Igor

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2008, 06:41:37 PM »
Here is the place for some usefull tips on this project.

Not necessary to use Elma 24 pos switch on limiter threshold.
For most situations, 1dB steps are just fine there. Good way to save 20 eur.

Unit done with original trunny's should have very close to original sound.
To have a lot of distortion coming from saturated trunny's use
OEP A262A2E as input/interstage. Great distorting box for drums.

Use transistors with  same order codes as in BOM. BC184 and 214
comes in different pinout versions. We need CBE version.

Check everything twice when soldering PCB.
Properly soldered unit works from first power-up
and just needs about a hour to comlete cal. procedure.
One reversed bastard or wrong nominal can add some
hours of headache.
See photos, it will help a lot to localize parts and their placement..
http://www.ij-audio.com
(new site hopefully will be up in July)

crisotop

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2008, 04:20:19 AM »
thanks igor!

cheers
christoph

Tekay

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2008, 12:24:23 PM »
24V AC / 30VA mains transformer will work great
http://www.audiomaintenance.com for audiotransformers
Thomas "TK" Kristiansson
----------------------------------
"The Sound Is In The Iron"
www.vintagedesign.se  www.tkaudio.se

PimD

Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2008, 06:09:28 PM »
Quote from: "Tubefreak"
Any good places to find those vintage transformers for the original feel?

If I'm correct, Sowter would be possible too:
T2
Sowter 9165 (2+2:1+1, 10k/2k4, +24dBu)
(replacement for 31267 according to Sowter)

T1
Sowter 9145 (1+1:2+2, 1k2/4k8, +10dBu)
(replacement for 10468 according to Sowter)


If you can't find original xformers for T3, what would you guys recommend?
Maarten


Maybe the Carnhill
CA-18-VTB1847 (LO1166)
CA-18-VTB9057 (LO2567)
CA-18-VTB1148 (LO1166)
CA-18-VTB9049 (same but narrow board version)

Could be used,
Don't know the exact turn ratio's
But they're not that expensive (about 17 Pounds at AML)
http://www.technicalaudio.com/reading/neve_xfmrs/neve_edo7113.html


 

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