Tim Campbell
Well-known member
I have had a few discussions with Guosheng and his factories are indeed in China but that shouldn't reflect badly on his capsules. He does excellent work.
3u Audio now has an M7 capsule!
- Thread starter Wordsushi
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
GeorgeToledo
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2015
- Messages
- 379
It seems like not having the backplate be accurate would be a substantial issue, considering that is an area where there is great commonality between k47 and m7.
Sidebar - when you look through old Neumann materials from 70s and 80s, maybe earlier in fact, they refer to the M7 as the "PVC k47". I find that perspective to be interesting.
Sidebar - when you look through old Neumann materials from 70s and 80s, maybe earlier in fact, they refer to the M7 as the "PVC k47". I find that perspective to be interesting.
GeorgeToledo said:
Well, we actually don't know that for a fact, nor do we know if anyone else has made accurate replica as most manufacturer don't post measurements, nor dimensions, or tolerances. All we have are claims, and still most agree none sound like the original.
Original Neumann capsules were produced manually, and we don't know either what were production tolerances of the backplates. Add pvc vs. mylar, electronic variations, transformer, aging, at the end slight variations in backplate can be meaningless!
I have personally modified depth and width of k67 holes and to my surprise the difference was in some cases negligible.
I am sure of one thing, if you become exclusive distributor in a country, with potential of selling tons of capsules worldwide Ningbo, or any other manufacturer would be more than happy to enter different hole dimension parameter in a drilling machine
Ericbazaar
Well-known member
mics said:
Sorry to say Sir, but your K7 Capsule have nothing to do with the M7 or K47 Capsule from Neumann. Is one of the badest sounding M7/K47 Capsule type ive ever heard. I dont understand your high price. What i say is, i have heard many M7, KK47/49, KK56, M9 or other old Neumann Capsules and non of them sounds the same. Please stop discussing about M7 type capsules :-X
Tim Campbell
Well-known member
I had many companies manufacture prototypes for me when I decided to make my K67 capsule. All were willing to make whatever you paid for really. In the end I decided to make them myself because I could better control the parameters I wanted as well as end up with a completely danish made product including the membranes.
I can't wait to hear these though my hopes aren't high when I remember the sound of old Berlin M7's compared to even some of Gefell's M7's.
I can't wait to hear these though my hopes aren't high when I remember the sound of old Berlin M7's compared to even some of Gefell's M7's.
GeorgeToledo
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2015
- Messages
- 379
kingkorg said:Well, we actually don't know that for a fact, nor do we know if anyone else has made accurate replica as most manufacturer don't post measurements, nor dimensions, or tolerances. All we have are claims, and still most agree none sound like the original.
Original Neumann capsules were produced manually, and we don't know either what were production tolerances of the backplates. Add pvc vs. mylar, electronic variations, transformer, aging, at the end slight variations in backplate can be meaningless!
I have personally modified depth and width of k67 holes and to my surprise the difference was in some cases negligible.
I am sure of one thing, if you become exclusive distributor in a country, with potential of selling tons of capsules worldwide Ningbo, or any other manufacturer would be more than happy to enter different hole dimension parameter in a drilling machine
I don’t necessarily disagree overall, but maybe something like an on axis test of solo voice or instrument would reveal less immediate differences than fuller range instrumentation or a higher amount of off axis sound, when it comes to these kind of backplate hole differences. You might see differences in impulse (transient) response from various angles too.
Stephen Paul used to obsess over this so much he would take capsules apart, look at the holes in a microscope, and smooth them out if he didn’t like what he saw. He always complained alot about that.
Now, by writing that, I am not saying I necessarily agree, just that it is an interesting perspective.
—
I may be wrong, but I seem to remember reading Neumann Berlin state that Gefell had changed small details of their M7 production after only a year or two. Pretty sure.
Anyway, will be interesting to hear how these turn out.
mics said:
Dude, all you've done is sh*t post this whole thread and it reads like you're in high school and you were the girl that didn't get asked to the prom. You sound jealous that Guosheng has had success, and quite bitter. You try to defame his work by slinging around "Chinese capsule" like it's something awful and call him a "reskinner" in a way that comes off as derogatory. And it's not the first time you've slagged him for being in Australia, like you're the only mic guy allowed in the country. Is it because he wasn't born there? Is it because he has decades of capsule design experience? Either way, I'm so disgusted by how you've reacted on this thread that I'm completely turned off from buying any of your products in the future.
Listen to that clip I posted. It's a fantastic blend of clarity and fullness with no sibilance or harshness issues. Dude, isn't that what people want in a mic sound? I've been using this mic on TV commercials all morning and it has something special. If you can't deal with that, then that's your problem. But don't come in here and make disparaging claims to try and damage the reputation of your competition because you obviously feel insecure about his new capsule. Guosheng is one of the nicest people I've done business with in pro-audio and he's always upbeat and generous with his knowledge. I bet even if he knew you were trying to slander him and somehow you ended up needing his help, he'd help you. But that's what people with generous and kind hearts do.
And... here's the thing... if these are indeed someone else's. backplates that you were offered before Guosheng, at that small price... and you passed on them? Well, perhaps you're not as good a businessman as you'd like to think you are. I can't believe I have to say this but... Please think twice about what you post online because it's not helping you win the war for hearts and minds, it's making me wish I never heard of you to begin with.
Again, I don't know how this capsule compares to a real M7, and I know that's important for a lot of you out there, but I do know it sounds great on my voice, so for me the argument ends there and I couldn't be happier with it. I'm ordering more as we speak.
Huh, I'm shocked. This thread went in wrong direction. But I really liked the sampe I heard. I can't wait to hear it in compare test.
But I really liked the sampe I heard. I can't wait to hear it in compare test. TillM
Well-known member
This I also thought too, Srdjan !Moby said:Huh, I'm shocked. This thread went in wrong direction.
Please guys, calm down.
That not very GroupDIY'ish.
The most thing I like in this forum is the respectful treatment.
mics
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2011
- Messages
- 220
Wordsushi said:
Hi All.
Just because I make things, shouldn’t mean that I can’t have an opinion when someone else makes things!
I mention the words re-skinner and made
In china and you reply back withba teary emotional rant. Please don’t!!!
I like to comment on things as do we all but I shouldn’t have to avoid commenting on microphone related threads for the fear that some may feel that I am merely doing so to make a buck or sling some crap;;; I too have an opinion and like to sometimes speak it.
I’m sure you are a really lovely guy and of course I don’t want to make you feel bad so let’s not get into this stuff. We should respect one another's opinions and not react in retaliation every time something is said that we don’t agree with.
When I said “wow just wow “ it was because this is group diy; if a capsule came in from china for this price just a few years back; we all would have said “wow just wow”
Secondly; Guosheng may have registered residential address in Australia but he doesn’t live there. I can register an address in Germany if I want to but that doesn’t make my products German.
I am absolutely sure that Guosheng is making great products. Good for him and i truly wish him all the success he can muster.
I won’t attack you but I ask the same in return. Emotional replies like this above are the reason larger manufacturers stop posting here because it seems they can’t post An opinion without the accompanying Slinging posts.
mics
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2011
- Messages
- 220
Moby said:
If anyone will make it well there, it’ll be him so I’m looking forward to hearing one someday.
I think realistically that pricepoint doesn’t really affect too much as 95% of our capsules go into mocrophones (either ours or other brands) with only a handful each week being for diy.
mics
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2011
- Messages
- 220
Hi Guys.
I just received a message (no need to say by whom). In the message i was told that my comments here were racist toward Guosheng and china. Firstly I don’t believe that this was the case as my words were in no way defamatory but if any of you perceived it this way please know this would never be my intention.
I spend many months of my year as a volunteer working with people in South east Asia. My entire family have learned an additional 2 languages to help in our work. We also use a large portion of the funds from Beesneez to facilitate this volunteer work. I truly love making microphones and parts but more than that; Our true passion is helping others to feel self worth, find opportunity and enjoy their life so this message cuts a bit considering i have spent more than half my life in Asia!
Hope this settles things somewhat!!!!
I just received a message (no need to say by whom). In the message i was told that my comments here were racist toward Guosheng and china. Firstly I don’t believe that this was the case as my words were in no way defamatory but if any of you perceived it this way please know this would never be my intention.
I spend many months of my year as a volunteer working with people in South east Asia. My entire family have learned an additional 2 languages to help in our work. We also use a large portion of the funds from Beesneez to facilitate this volunteer work. I truly love making microphones and parts but more than that; Our true passion is helping others to feel self worth, find opportunity and enjoy their life so this message cuts a bit considering i have spent more than half my life in Asia!
Hope this settles things somewhat!!!!
benqbasic
Well-known member
Wordsushi said:
Wow hypocrite much?
granger.frederic
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 22, 2010
- Messages
- 489
My experience was great with Ben's k7 .
For me it's a great capsule , with it's own character.
it sounds very "3d" and "expensive", it takes EQ very well, like other high quality capsules (Heiserman, Campbell, Thiersch, Neumann K49,Dan M7,etc...).Each one has it's own sound.
I don't care if it's sounds or not like an original M7 or K47...
My experience with Chinese capsules (i tried many...), until now, was random, from crap to usable, but never as good as those ones, even if there was a factory selection.
But, I have no preconception about Chinese products...
If someone could provide some detailed reviews, with maybe a quick shoutout (sung voice and acoustic guitar for ex.) with few or no treatments, and with all things equal (mic body and headamp) , then we could maybe discuss in peace.
I don't have time for this, unfortunately.
For me it's a great capsule , with it's own character.
it sounds very "3d" and "expensive", it takes EQ very well, like other high quality capsules (Heiserman, Campbell, Thiersch, Neumann K49,Dan M7,etc...).Each one has it's own sound.
I don't care if it's sounds or not like an original M7 or K47...
My experience with Chinese capsules (i tried many...), until now, was random, from crap to usable, but never as good as those ones, even if there was a factory selection.
But, I have no preconception about Chinese products...
If someone could provide some detailed reviews, with maybe a quick shoutout (sung voice and acoustic guitar for ex.) with few or no treatments, and with all things equal (mic body and headamp) , then we could maybe discuss in peace.
I don't have time for this, unfortunately.
mics said:
Thank you for that bit of revisionist history. Here's what really happened: You sent me a message in which you said you were sorry if you offended me. You offered me a free capsule to compare to Guosheng's awesome new one. I replied why I had issues with your posts. I said I didn't want to take a free product that would take money away from your family in these tough times. I looked again at your "apology" again and realized your explanation that "sometimes you can be a sledge" meant that you were saying the behaviour was just a part of who you are as a person and that you felt that you were allowed your opinion like anyone else. So, what I see is false equivalence between people talking about a new product and you taking disrespectful shots at your competitor who makes that product.
That didn't wash with me. What I realized is that you really didn't seem to know what you were apologizing for. That you went into a thread about your competitor with the intent of throwing shade at him and his product. You make unsubstantiated accusations about the validity of his product. You try to diminish his reputation here by calling him a "reskinner", which to me feels like you are trying to dismiss his decades of capsule design and manufacture. If this forum is supposed to be conducted with respect for people's product, then where is the respect, Ben? All I see is jealousy and insecurity.
Then in your subsequent post, you express bewilderment that a "Chinese" capsule should cost so much, yet only $40 less than your competing product. This is not the first time you have thrown shade at Chinese made products, specifically Guosheng's. In the past you have dismissed that he is a legitimate Australian company because he's an immigrant. It seems to really bother you that there's this successful Chinese man who came to Australia and became the biggest capsule manufacturer there. I get it you're a proud Aussie. But when you start to say, imply or show bias against another Australian citizen and their business because they weren't born there.... well, that's racism.
So, I called you out that I felt your apology was insincere. I said I thought you were not a racist, but I was disappointed that you used racially-charged inferences, especially when your only contribution to the thread was to defame Guosheng. I said that we live in a time where Asians here in the US were seeing increased harassment and physical attacks because of Covid paranoia and as an Asian American, I was particularly sensitive to the racism Asians receive that often goes unnoticed by people who don't realize they are committing racially insensitivity toward others. In so many words, I said I didn't think your casual racism was intentional (though your intent to disrespect Guosheng was). I explained why I felt it racially insensitive, so that you could better understand. I mentioned that I had received messages from other people who also said what you said was racist in nature. I asked you to please avoid using such language about Guosheng and we'd be cool. That's where I figured it would end.
THEN... I received a long rage message from you, where you say my explanation of my issue with your behaviour was "the funniest reply" you ever got. You then essentially told me I was nothing in this DIY community, with you being the big shot. Then came the interesting part where you went to great lengths saying how much you volunteer to help Asians. The old "I can't be racist because I have friends of that race" argument minorities get all the time. Which is why it was so baffling that you lacked the clarity to see how your posts here are seen by some. Even if it was just me who was offended, is your hostile reaction to being told why I was offended just an indication that you can't recognize you hurt someone or an indication that you just don't care?
That's the lifelong burden of being a minority--because you are small in number, the insensitivities are brushed off by those who have yet to understand how fast the world is changing. Think about it. What if your competitor was originally from Africa or the Middle East? The context of what you said would be easily seen as derogatory or jingoistic. But if he's a Chinese-born individual, that distinction is ignored.
That message was followed by another from you about how childish I was. So, I realized right away that I was correct in assessing that your original apology was a sham because you knew your original comments had bitten you in the ass. If you really had any remorse for what you originally said, I would have expected a reply that was a lot less aggressively angry than the ones you sent trying to belittle me because I'm a nobody. That right there is the kind of behaviour one would expect from a bully. If anybody needs to see it, I can post the entire thread of messages.
So, Ben, let's not forget that you are the one who started all of the ugliness on this thread. You showed a massive lack of respect for your competitor and you did it in a way that pointed right at his heritage. I just came here to talk about a new capsule I was excited about.
What people should understand is that the price of a product does not reflect its quality or performance.
It's the result of choice ofmaterial (e.g. gold vs. aluminium), of machining process (hand-milled vs. CNC), of expected quantities, of company policy (reinvestment in R&D, dividends, marketing..), distribution (direct vs. retail) and cost of doing business.
I will never criticize a manufacturer for its prices; my privilege is to buy or ignore.
Even for snake oil, I won't criticize the price, just the uselessness and abuse of credulity.
It's the result of choice ofmaterial (e.g. gold vs. aluminium), of machining process (hand-milled vs. CNC), of expected quantities, of company policy (reinvestment in R&D, dividends, marketing..), distribution (direct vs. retail) and cost of doing business.
I will never criticize a manufacturer for its prices; my privilege is to buy or ignore.
Even for snake oil, I won't criticize the price, just the uselessness and abuse of credulity.
come on guys you are embarrassing yourselves and irritating the rest of us.
Several posts could be interpreted as breaking rule #4
Repeated posts that are not civil and respectful, will be enough to get banned.
Please behave.
JR
Several posts could be interpreted as breaking rule #4
rule4 said:
Repeated posts that are not civil and respectful, will be enough to get banned.
Please behave.
JR
