3u Audio now has an M7 capsule!

[Robby1970]

Hi all.

I was curious on when these were to become available but it also quite interesting!

He doesn’t make these backplates which probably means he doesn’t make any of his backplates! Another skinner only.

These are a ningbo backplate. They were offered to me last year and naturally I refused. I was then emailed a few weeks later and the offer was rescinded and I was told that another Australian manufacturer had asked to have exclusivity for Australia on these backplates!

They were offered to me for $4.00 each!!!!!

They actually look really good and the machining quality is excellent but... the hole size is wrong.

Hi, are the capsules available?
Thanks Infinite

 

[soliloqueen]

Hi all.

I was curious on when these were to become available but it also quite interesting!

He doesn’t make these backplates which probably means he doesn’t make any of his backplates! Another skinner only.

These are a ningbo backplate. They were offered to me last year and naturally I refused. I was then emailed a few weeks later and the offer was rescinded and I was told that another Australian manufacturer had asked to have exclusivity for Australia on these backplates!

They were offered to me for $4.00 each!!!!!

They actually look really good and the machining quality is excellent but... the hole size is wrong.

these are definitely not the same backplates

3U M7:


The 3U M7 is a machining masterclass. The electrode surface is absurdly flat and perfectly finished (sorry for the dirt), despite the fact that the gap is cut into the plate. It makes me truly worried to be competing with them. This is definitely a capsule approaching first-party quality. There's a reason people are using them in the current Thiersch shortage.

 

[Moby]

these are definitely not the same backplates

3U M7:
View attachment 101059

The 3U M7 is a machining masterclass. The electrode surface is absurdly flat and perfectly finished (sorry for the dirt), despite the fact that the gap is cut into the plate. It makes me truly worried to be competing with them. This is definitely a capsule approaching first-party quality. There's a reason people are using them in the current Thiersch shortage.

This backplate looks perfect. Good or wrong hole sizes, those capsules sounds good. Really good. Very close to the vintage Gefell M7

 

[Drea]

The M7 has a less extended top end that sounds better on acoustic instruments I think. The flat k47 is very flat. I think it is too flat for some sources personally. It's something I would fix if I ever did a V2.

You mean the last generation Neumann k49 capsules. Yes it’s straight almost sow.

 

[soliloqueen]

You mean the last generation Neumann k49 capsules. Yes it’s straight almost sow.

No, I mean my test capsule, the flat k47, which doesn't have the lift through 5k of the Neumann

 

[C12VR]

On a similar note, I contacted Guosheng about the true brass CK12 capsule, and he said it is planned for the end of 2023. Extremely excited to see if he gets it right!

 

[soliloqueen]

Ugh, I wanted to avoid doing a CK12 pending discussion with people for ethical reasons but if he really is doing that then I should probably also do one. I'll have to think really hard about it.

 

[Khron]

Ugh, I wanted to avoid doing a CK12 pending discussion with people for ethical reasons but if he really is doing that then I should probably also do one. I'll have to think really hard about it.

Wasn't it only a matter of time?

 

[soapfoot]

It seems like the most popular manufacturers of CK12s struggle to meet demand at times, so someone else in the game seems positive to me

 

[gyraf]

The question is if they are willing to put the effort into actually adjusting the individual capsules: Contrary to the center-terminated types, it's not enough "just" to make them dimensionally consistent and precise, there is an almost chaotic'ish behavior that needs to be taken into account post-manufacture. This is what always put off industrialistic/mass manufacturers when trying their hand on the CK12-type, and probably why it always fails to scale production of these

/Jakob E.

 

[Moby]

The question is if they are willing to put the effort into actually adjusting the individual capsules: Contrary to the center-terminated types, it's not enough "just" to make them dimensionally consistent and precise, there is an almost chaotic'ish behavior that needs to be taken into account post-manufacture. This is what always put off industrialistic/mass manufacturers when trying their hand on the CK12-type, and probably why it always fails to scale production of these

/Jakob E.

If you are talking about the 3U audio, I'm sure he will make it right. I'm not worried about his work. He already blew me out with his M7. I'm shocked how some of the highly ranked CK12 sounds wrong. TBH, not just CK12's . Also M7 manufacturers obviously dont use their ears or simply missunderstood the subject of those vintage capsules.

 

[soliloqueen]

The question is if they are willing to put the effort into actually adjusting the individual capsules: Contrary to the center-terminated types, it's not enough "just" to make them dimensionally consistent and precise, there is an almost chaotic'ish behavior that needs to be taken into account post-manufacture. This is what always put off industrialistic/mass manufacturers when trying their hand on the CK12-type, and probably why it always fails to scale production of these

/Jakob E.

the thing about the CK12 is that people mythologize the magical element (which is really just instability) and create this narrative that the reason it's so hard to get right is because the design is just so brilliant that people don't understand it, but that's not true at all. the idea behind the design is brilliant. the implementation isn't very elegant, and that's to be expected! The brilliant designers behind the CK12 had an amazing idea that they didn't have the ability to pull off elegantly, because of the limitations of the time. Rather than giving up, and because they were such brilliant engineers, they managed to essentially jerry-rig the 50-part screw-thread monstrosity that is the brass CK12 as the barest possible implementation of their idea. It's a testament to their peerlessness as engineers that the thing works at all. behind the mythologization, the CK12 is so unstable because it is a bad (in the sense of "incomplete") implementation of the premise of the capsule. The instability is just a design flaw and it can be fixed like any other design flaw, and I imagine the original designers would have looked at it much the same way at the time.

 

[C12VR]

the thing about the CK12 is that people mythologize the magical element (which is really just instability) and create this narrative that the reason it's so hard to get right is because the design is just so brilliant that people don't understand it, but that's not true at all. the idea behind the design is brilliant. the implementation isn't very elegant, and that's to be expected! The brilliant designers behind the CK12 had an amazing idea that they didn't have the ability to pull off elegantly, because of the limitations of the time. Rather than giving up, and because they were such brilliant engineers, they managed to essentially jerry-rig the 50-part screw-thread monstrosity that is the brass CK12 as the barest possible implementation of their idea. It's a testament to their peerlessness as engineers that the thing works at all. behind the mythologization, the CK12 is so unstable because it is a bad (in the sense of "incomplete") implementation of the premise of the capsule. The instability is just a design flaw and it can be fixed like any other design flaw, and I imagine the original designers would have looked at it much the same way at the time.

What limiting factors made it necessary for the capsule to be so complicated? If it can be simplified without performance sacrifice why hasn't anyone done it thus far, given the massive demand for these capsules? I know of Austrian Audio's capsules; they clearly don't have the performance of the originals.

 

[soliloqueen]

What limiting factors made it necessary for the capsule to be so complicated? If it can be simplified without performance sacrifice why hasn't anyone done it thus far, given the massive demand for these capsules? I know of Austrian Audio's capsules; they clearly don't have the performance of the originals.

There is not massive demand for these capsules. All in all, this is a pretty niche community. It's probably not worth the investment to reengineer an entire capsule for a product that might potentially fail, either in performance or because the relatively small demographic disagrees with the changes made on principle.

I don't want to get into precisely what elements of the original design are the result of manufacturing limitations because I don't want to give solutions out where more well funded competitors might see them and do them first. I'm just a poor kid from the Midwest that got lucky with a couple small scale investors. I have long-term goals here. I want to make accessible audio equipment (microphones with Braille, audio interfaces that you can set up and use blind, with motor impairments etc) and I want my current and soon upcoming passion project capsules to perform well and be inventive so that I can develop a good reputation and be able to get more people interested in funding accessible products, so I'm playing things a bit close to the chest at the moment.

 

[C12VR]

There is not massive demand for these capsules. All in all, this is a pretty niche community. It's probably not worth the investment to reengineer an entire capsule for a product that might potentially fail, either in performance or because the relatively small demographic disagrees with the changes made on principle.

I don't want to get into precisely what elements of the original design are the result of manufacturing limitations because I don't want to give solutions out where more well funded competitors might see them and do them first. I'm just a poor kid from the Midwest that got lucky with a couple small scale investors.

Honestly, I hope you're right.

 

[wlinart]

the thing about the CK12 is that people mythologize the magical element (which is really just instability) and create this narrative that the reason it's so hard to get right is because the design is just so brilliant that people don't understand it, but that's not true at all. the idea behind the design is brilliant. the implementation isn't very elegant, and that's to be expected! The brilliant designers behind the CK12 had an amazing idea that they didn't have the ability to pull off elegantly, because of the limitations of the time. Rather than giving up, and because they were such brilliant engineers, they managed to essentially jerry-rig the 50-part screw-thread monstrosity that is the brass CK12 as the barest possible implementation of their idea. It's a testament to their peerlessness as engineers that the thing works at all. behind the mythologization, the CK12 is so unstable because it is a bad (in the sense of "incomplete") implementation of the premise of the capsule. The instability is just a design flaw and it can be fixed like any other design flaw, and I imagine the original designers would have looked at it much the same way at the time.

Maybe it's just me, but i'm more excited about you doing a CK12 capsule than all your other designs combined

 

[soliloqueen]

Maybe it's just me, but i'm more excited about you doing a CK12 capsule than all your other designs combined

Anything is possible. A few months ago I said I'd never do an M7 but I'm considering it

 

[Moby]

Anything is possible. A few months ago I said I'd never do an M7 but I'm considering it

CK12 is the one . But the correct constructed and tuned to spec's

 

[dima_k85]

I know of Austrian Audio's capsules; they clearly don't have the performance of the originals.

What are the disadvantages of Austrian Audio's capsules?

 

[Moby]

What are the disadvantages of Austrian Audio's capsules?

I also don't understand the question. Those capsules are good. Well made, made a bit diferent than the vintage "brass one". Capsule sounds very good, of course, not the same as the brass one, but good. The problem or "disadvantage" of some capsules is when manufacturer calls it the same name as the original and claims it sounds the same as the one. AA as I remember correctly, wrote that their capsule is based on the CK12 design but they improoved some details. Does it sounds better than the CK12 brass? I expect to sound a bit diferent, but "better" is really intime, personal opinion.