Antagonist in Chief

[pucho812]

Anyone have any data to back that up? Otherwise, it’s nothing more than opinion. Plenty of that to go around.

The data is displayed by the Department of Homeland Security and shows that the number of migrants at the border has been pushed down from 144,000 in May 2019 to 23,000 in 2020.

The reduced inflow of migrants has helped border officers block more drug trafficking.

 

[cyrano]

So you think it's allright lying to immigrants and dumping them anywhere?

 

[iturnknobs]

So you think it's allright lying to immigrants and dumping them anywhere?

Just ask all the "pro-lifer Christians" what Jesus taught... there's a stumper for the right-wingers. They come for jobs while our descendants came to steal a country for themselves, while committing genocide, virtually wiping out all the Native Americans. They should be putting us on planes back to Europe and England while telling us we're going on vacation. Republicans are selfish, nasty, double standard having cancers in our society.

 

[Recording Engineer]

The data is displayed by the Department of Homeland Security and shows that the number of migrants at the border has been pushed down from 144,000 in May 2019 to 23,000 in 2020.

The reduced inflow of migrants has helped border officers block more drug trafficking.

To be honest, I’m sure what this is showing, meaning, the key word in that data is: Encounters

Does that mean more migrants showed? Not necessarily. Does that mean there was better enforcement? Not necessarily. Then, in any case, how much is that influenced by the current administration? Hard to say, but probably is mostly simple opinion.

 

[boji]

"Feel free to look up the endless clips of Trump rallies [fear mongering]. Just another political narrative."

Don't think we look things up anymore.

We know in advance the position we want to extol... we act by 'looking up' ways to convert priors/assumptions into narrative attacks/counterattacks.

 

[hodad]

We know in advance the position we want to extoll...

You're being rather general here. Not sure this would hold up to scrutiny.

And "extol" only has one "l." I did know that in advance.

 

[Matador]

The data is displayed by the Department of Homeland Security and shows that the number of migrants at the border has been pushed down from 144,000 in May 2019 to 23,000 in 2020.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Correlation does not prove causation.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Correlation does not prove causation.

unless it does... how else do you prove policy success but with statistics?

JR

 

[boji]

You're being rather general here. Not sure this would hold up to scrutiny.

Because it generally applies. All the evidence a person needs to maintain their PoV is at hand. As long as one's ingroup is in charge of definitions, outgroups remain inscrutable, invalid, their facts wrongly attribute causation, and on and on.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Does anyone actually doubt that illegal immigration rates have increased dramatically since January 2021?

 

[Recording Engineer]

I don’t doubt nor believe, because I haven’t seen anything that says one way or the other; just team opinions so far.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

I don’t doubt nor believe, because I haven’t seen anything that says one way or the other; just team opinions so far.

So the CBP data doesn't mean anything? All the first hand accounts from property owners near the border are narrative-driven fabrications? DEA drug seizure data at and near the border are what? MAGA semi-fascist fear mongering? I've never seen denial so deep.

 

[Matador]

I don’t doubt nor believe, because I haven’t seen anything that says one way or the other; just team opinions so far.

And can we really trust the CBP data anyways? I mean, with our large, intrusive government, and it's various lies and cover-ups regarding COVID, the lockdown, the vaccines, we should take any data with a grain of salt.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

And can we really trust the CBP data anyways? I mean, with our large, intrusive government, and it's various lies and cover-ups regarding COVID, the lockdown, the vaccines, we should take any data with a grain of salt.

Sure, skepticism should always be present, which is why I mentioned multiple sources. What motives would be at work to cause CPB, DEA, private land owners, and others to all agree that the problem is clearly much worse than two years ago? Use your brain.

 

[scott2000]

It usually appeared to me that the data has been pretty clear. It's just what data is talked about or how it's been presented or interpreted. Similar to the CDC excess deaths. They're worse than they've ever been from the looks of it but the focus on them isn't... scaling tricks...etc

 

[AnalogPackrat]

It usually appeared to me that the data has been pretty clear.

Yes, it is.

It's just what data is talked about or how it's been presented or interpreted.

Huh? We are seeing record-breaking numbers of illegal crossings, human trafficking, drug seizures, drug ODs, etc. related to the border crisis. What valid alternate presentation or interpretation is there other than that it is a major crisis?

Similar to the CDC excess deaths. They're worse than they've ever been from the looks of it but the focus on them isn't... scaling tricks...etc

Don't want to side track this thread with that topic.

 

[Matador]

It's just what data is talked about or how it's been presented or interpreted.

Yes, this is exactly my point. The top 9 most terrifying words in the English language are: "I'm from the government, and I'm here to summarize.”

Biden is probably letting in more immigrants as the start of a negotiation, and to bring the issue into discussion. And as is evidenced by this thread, it seems to be working!

He is not alone, there is an effort to mount a class action lawsuit against Gov DeSantis, who is now the object of democratic hatred.

This is false: us liberals have always hated DeSantis.

 

[scott2000]

What valid alternate presentation or interpretation is there other than that it is a major crisis?

Idk... but people like to feel validated so there are plenty of options out there most likely. And not necessarily untrue? Just different.
Kinda ot weird .... sometimes the frustration?disdain? for the masses by certain groups can be understood in some way by the frustration/disdain of how some groups fall for certain things.? Or something like that... really sucks actually.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Yes, this is exactly my point. The top 9 most terrifying words in the English language are: "I'm from the government, and I'm here to summarize.”

Reagan's quote was better.

Biden is probably letting in more immigrants as the start of a negotiation, and to bring the issue into discussion. And as is evidenced by this thread, it seems to be working!

He's obligated to uphold his oath of office. Hurting the country in a multitude of ways is not "negotiation," but is impeachable.

This is false: us liberals have always hated DeSantis.

Because he's intelligent and sane. And your grammar is bad: "we liberals" is correct.

 

[hodad]

Because it generally applies. All the evidence a person needs to maintain their PoV is at hand. As long as one's ingroup is in charge of definitions, outgroups remain inscrutable, invalid, their facts wrongly attribute causation, and on and on.

Being unable to see outside one's assumptions/preconceptions/upbringing is nothing new. At the moment, and this also is nothing new though perhaps not typically so widespread, facts--actually, verifiable, readily available, empirically sound facts--are being not just ignored but outright contradicted in order to push an agenda or belief. I think seeing a supposedly august body like the Supreme Court indulge in such behavior is something few of us in the US have experienced before.

Also, your effort to bothsides this issue seems to be your own inability to see outside your preconceptions. No one on the left is claiming that Dem ex-presidents have some special privileges that are nowhere codified in law and in fact are contradicted by existing law. No Dems live in a fabulist world of stolen elections. They're not storming the Capitol or illegally tampering with voting machines. ---It's not that it couldn't be Dems, but right now it's not.


And as for me, beyond the reading I typically do, I have to admit that there have been times when I've actually gone and researched a topic being discussed here just to make sure I wasn't talking out my anus. Not always, but sometimes.. ........