Antidepressants and the maggots of the mind

[JohnRoberts]

How many of these overdoses are suicides?

probably close to zero... I doubt kids take adderal or xanax, intending to take the dirt nap... In fact, since you mention it a pure fentanyl pill might make a good suicide pill (doesn't take many mG), but these deaths are from supposedly harmless drugs spiked with fentanyl. Accidental poisoning not overdoses. Overdoses suggests that the drug user knew what they were ingesting and just took too much. Oops fentanyl not adderal... see ya in heaven.

Now I think of it, how many car accidents are suicides?

Probably a pretty small fraction while there is a gray area between self destructive behavior (like drunk driving) and intentional self harm.

There is also "suicide by cop" where some dumbass points a gun at an armed officer and threatens him/her. That rarely ends well for the aggressor.

It all adds up, somehow. No way to fool mother nature.

new math?

More than one side because we pay for it. The advertising budget comes from somewhere and it isn’t corporate profits or salaries.

huh? advertising comes from sales and administrative overhead. Indeed advertising is a cost of doing business.

There is so much slop in for profit medical care. A very profitable sector on the back of the citizens

sounds pretty easy

. It seems like for every life saving remedy you get four drugs for toenail fungus.

My last good doctor who retired because of the ACA offered me a script for toenail fungus medicine, but I cured it myself using a dilute solution of white vinegar.

JR

 

[Gold]

huh? advertising comes from sales and administrative overhead. Indeed advertising is a cost of doing business.

How did they survive when advertising was banned? There were a lot more hospitals around before they could advertise. Service in NYC has gotten worse and worse over the years despite all the happy actors in the ads. I don’t think that’s unique. Rural hospitals have been closing at a good clip too. I’m not saying its the sole cause but that money has to come from somewhere. Record profits come from consumers. Doesn’t seem like many are happy with the current medical system ads and all. Drug prices in the US reflect this discrepancy.

 

[crazydoc]

Strange how many medical conditions don't seem to need (or get) treatment until an expensive drug is invented for them, touted in a TV commercial, and the viewer is told to ask their doctor if it's right for them.

And they have to get a specialist in real fast talking to list the possible adverse sequelae.

Limp dick, dry eyes, constipation, toenail fungus, baldness, stop smoking, obesity, fibromyalgia, psoriasis....
and probably many more I am overlooking.

 

[JohnRoberts]

How did they survive when advertising was banned? There were a lot more hospitals around before they could advertise. Service in NYC has gotten worse and worse over the years despite all the happy actors in the ads. I don’t think that’s unique. Rural hospitals have been closing at a good clip too. I’m not saying its the sole cause but that money has to come from somewhere. Record profits come from consumers. Doesn’t seem like many are happy with the current medical system ads and all. Drug prices in the US reflect this discrepancy.

Shut them down, how dare they make a profit..? Drug prices are higher in the US to subsidize all the foreign countries that buy the same drugs for lower prices.It cost a lot of money to develop new drugs, and they typically pursue diseases they know they can get paid curing.

Strange how many medical conditions don't seem to need (or get) treatment until an expensive drug is invented for them, touted in a TV commercial, and the viewer is told to ask their doctor if it's right for them.

chicken/egg?

I have been dealing with an arthritic knee for years. I remain apprehensive about chronic use of NSAID anti-imflammatories because of the warnings. I got my doctor to give me a scrip for a topical NSAID that you rub on the outside of the knee. Completely eliminating any stomach bleeding issues. It didn't work worth a flip.... Now it is sold over the counter and I see TV ads for it all the time, I bet it still doesn't work worth a flip.

And they have to get a specialist in real fast talking to list the possible adverse sequelae.

there are electronic devices that do that... speed up the playback rate, then shift the pitch back down to normal.

Limp dick, dry eyes, constipation, toenail fungus, baldness, stop smoking, obesity, fibromyalgia, psoriasis....
and probably many more I am overlooking.

Some of those sound like real issues, if they could come up with a cost effective medicine to combat obesity, that could save many lives. I've read about two different drugs that supposedly work, but are too expensive now.Maybe a mass market for them could drive the cost/price down.

Limp dick not so much,,, IIRC that was a side effect of some other drug before they decided to run it up the flagpole and make it the main event. Coincidentally I just started looking into medicine to pee better despite BPH.... I just did one search but I think they listed getting an erection as a side effect for the pee medicine.

JR

 

[cyrano]

Drug prices are higher in the US to subsidize all the foreign countries that buy the same drugs for lower prices.

So that's the false news they are selling these days?

It's always someone else's fault, isn't it? Damned commies...

 

[ruffrecords]

seWow..You guys don't have them?
They are pretty creative and abundant here...Was actually surprised to see a schizophrenia (I think) one in recent past.....

That is incredible. I cannot imagine how that could possibly be permitted. We have adverts for non-prescription drugs but nothing else. We leave the decision about which drug to use to the doctors. And then they have to choose from the list of the ones available on the NHS. And they also have to try to keep within budget guidelines.

Cheers

Ian

 

[living sounds]

That is incredible. I cannot imagine how that could possibly be permitted. We have adverts for non-prescription drugs but nothing else. We leave the decision about which drug to use to the doctors. And then they have to choose from the list of the ones available on the NHS. And they also have to try to keep within budget guidelines.

Let me again recommend "Pharma" by Gerald Posner. It tells the whole story how the industry developed from the travelling snake oil peddlers into today's conglomerates. I found it fascinating.

 

[JohnRoberts]

The worst shysters are the vitamin/supplement industry, selling literal snake oil (ineffective) remedies.

While the drug industry is a for profit business, so operates in their own self interest, even they avoid causing harm (because of lawyers). The obvious example is the T (testosterone) boosters. The drug industry investigated this for the promise of fountain of youth, reversing aging effect. The unintended side effect of boosting T was promoting cancer growth, so the real drug industry avoided touching it with a ten foot pole (to avoid lawsuits). The supplement industry dived in with both feet.

As usual if something sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't true.

JR

 

[living sounds]

Agreed, the supplement industries and many "alternative medicine" profiteurs are really bad.

 

[living sounds]

I have been dealing with an arthritic knee for years. I remain apprehensive about chronic use of NSAID anti-imflammatories because of the warnings. I got my doctor to give me a scrip for a topical NSAID that you rub on the outside of the knee. Completely eliminating any stomach bleeding issues. It didn't work worth a flip.... Now it is sold over the counter and I see TV ads for it all the time, I bet it still doesn't work worth a flip.

Re arthritis: Have you tried LED light? Not vodoo at all and really cheap (you can get a panel from alibaba for little money) and it actually works. There are lot's of studies, NASA scientists originally discovered some of the properties of red and near IR light on the human body.

https://heelspurs.com/led.html

 

[JohnRoberts]

No... Pubmed had one citation about LED light used on rheumatoid arthritis

Red, white, yellow and infra-red (IR) LEDs were tested to measure the optical penetration for soft tissue and their scattering. In vitro study of the cellular response of normal and inflamed lymphocytes from healthy and RA patients was conducted respectively. Methotrexate was injected as photosensitizer to achieve cell-specific precision.

I suffer from "osteo" arthritis caused by bone on bone irritation related inflammation. Over the decades I have tried numerous folk remedies (including whacky tobaccy). Hint: just because they say something works on the internet does not make it so.

For good information (with citations) about light theraphy check "Sunlight" by Kime.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

So that's the false news they are selling these days?

It's always someone else's fault, isn't it? Damned commies...

as usual thank you for your thoughtful contributions.

JR

 

[living sounds]

No... Pubmed had one citation about LED light used on rheumatoid arthritis


I suffer from "osteo" arthritis caused by bone on bone irritation related inflammation. Over the decades I have tried numerous folk remedies (including whacky tobaccy). Hint: just because they say something works on the internet does not make it so.

For good information (with citations) about light theraphy check "Sunlight" by Kime.

JR

I can't say if it helps with your condition, but could be worth a try. At least lowering pain short term usually works. You can even use a halogen light and a plastic water bag (to block far IR).

There are lot's of studies on various conditions. I wouldn't call this a "folk remedy". There are known mechanisms and in vitro studies showing the modes of action.

I've used LED light to treat various injuries and also joints. It does stimulate collagen production, an important component of joints...

It's important to use it correctly because of the biphasal response curve.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I can't say if it helps with your condition, but could be worth a try. At least lowering pain short term usually works. You can even use a halogen light and a plastic water bag (to block far IR).

There are lot's of studies on various conditions. I wouldn't call this a "folk remedy". There are known mechanisms and in vitro studies showing the modes of action.

I've used LED light to treat various injuries and also joints. It does stimulate collagen production, an important component of joints...

It's important to use it correctly because of the biphasal response curve.

That sounds pretty significant, do you have any medical citations I can read... Searching just finds hawkers...

JR

 

[living sounds]

A google search for "photobiomodulation arthritis" shows lot's of studies.

 

[living sounds]

And that heelspurs Link above, while old, gives a good overview about the science behind it.

 

[Gold]

Shut them down, how dare they make a profit..? Drug prices are higher in the US to subsidize all the foreign countries that buy the same drugs for lower prices.It cost a lot of money to develop new drugs, and they typically pursue diseases they know they can get paid curing.

The US isn’t the only country with a pharmaceutical industry. We just pay more for the same drug than anyone else.

 

[JohnRoberts]

The US isn’t the only country with a pharmaceutical industry. We just pay more for the same drug than anyone else.

This is an old well discussed topic here, especially during the ACA scrum wrt drug costs. The drug industry makes an easy (deep pockets) target, and there were iconic examples of bad behavior (like Martin Shkreli) used to smear the entire industry. The most egregious bad actors did years in the gray bar hotel. Right now everybody is suing the drug makers for opioid pain killer abuses, while the medical community that said it wasn't addictive is complicit.

Drug companies are international and sell their product around the world. One little noticed supply chain issue is how much of the drug industry's raw materials come from China. I have seen estimates of between 80% and 90% of all drug industry raw materials are coming from China. Partisan fact checkers say that is fake news, but don't offer credible alternate numbers.

India has famously ignored drug patents when they can't get permission to manufacture for their home market.

It is very expensive to develop new drugs and win regulatory approval, so they obviously target high interest diseases to earn their investment back.

JR

 

[cyrano]

There are always two sides to this... a benefit from increased awareness, and the downside of patients pestering doctors for easy remedies.

Wow. Education through publicity. Why wasn't that explored any sooner?

 

[cyrano]

It is very expensive to develop new drugs and win regulatory approval, so they obviously target high interest diseases to earn their investment back.

You might be amazed that a lot of treatments have been developed by countries like Cuba, fi, but had to be smuggled into that great capitalist system of yours by a backdoor, because "the market" would never accept it if the public knew where the research came from.

Besides, it's expensive to test and certify treatments because that's what the industry wanted. It kept out smaller companies so these could easily be scooped up. And it also kept the industry's insurance bills down.

These days, AI can suggest so many interesting molecules for research, it's no longer a field driven by great minds but just another boardroom stats program that decides which molecules to invest in. No sentiment allowed, just cold hard numbers to present to shareholders.

The sad truth is that science is driven by reputation and reputation today equals number of publications and number of quotes. Since these numbers have been corrupted by fake publications resulting in fake "quoted" stats, research went the way of politics. These fake publishing companies get exposed every now and then, but relatively little harm is done to the scientists as long as they keep working for their present employer. Win-win, from the industries' viewpoint.

Once it gets too big, it tends to get corrupted somehow...