Audio Historians - REDD/RCA/Langevin/RFT Lorentz/WSW

[ruffrecords]

Me too Ian. 

Nice tracking down of original source material 

Kudos to the ITU for that one. They do not normally help out non-members but because the material was so old they scanned it for me. Nice to find a big organisation taking the time to help out the little guy.

Cheers

Ian

 

[matriachamplification]

Hello GDIY!

Mr. Thompson-Bell, I think we can agree, has debunked the myth

Thanks for the BBC docs!

Sorry for the delayed correspondence.

Does anyone know Len Page's full name? Winston?

We want to add his, along with some others, names to our official 60/40 crest.

 

[matriachamplification]

It's possible it's Leonard but Len Page is how he's known so I would think that's good enough no?

[/quote]

Yeah it is fine. Just double checking before committing it to print. Thanks

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Yeah it is fine. Just double checking before committing it to print. Thanks

The only photo I can find of him is attached, he's on the right-hand side at the rear.

 

[matriachamplification]

The only photo I can find of him is attached, he's on the right-hand side at the rear.

Noted. Is that not Peter Bukowski in the bottom left chair?

There is little information online in regards to Len Page so everything shared here will quite literally be the foundation in this regards. We have some ideas/thoughts on this that I will lay out in the next post

To start I am terribly sorry for being aloof, I was in deep thought for the past week or so connecting some mental paths to our story arch.

More soon

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Noted. Is that not Peter Bukowski in the bottom left chair? 

On the left chair is Bill Livy, next to him is Mike Bachelor

 

[madswitcher]

Centre back looks like a very young Chris Buchanan.

I’ll show it to him when we next meet up after this Covid madness ends 

Mike

 

[matriachamplification]

Centre back looks like a very young Chris Buchanan.

I’ll show it to him when we next meet up after this Covid madness ends 

Mike

Thank you Mike!

Here is where I am at. Our official company title is shared in my early art concepts.

Sixty Forty, a nod to the solder we use Our own little Audio Tech union.

I have too many design thoughts right now but wanted to share this early to get it off my plate and in front of GDIY for insight. I will say I am SUPER THRILLED about name our company Sixty Forty!!@!!!!

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Centre back looks like a very young Chris Buchanan.

I’ll show it to him when we next meet up after this Covid madness ends 

Mike

Yep it is He's listed in the line-up for that photo which is dated 1974.  The only other person that's not been mentioned so far is Francis Thompson who's standing to the left of Chris as viewed.  So:
Rear L - R  Francis Thompson, Chris Buchanan, Len Page
Front L - R Bill Livy, Mike Bachelor.

 

[madswitcher]

Hi again matriachamplification and Winston,

For your history project, I dropped Chris an email rather that waiting.  He said that the line-up was correct.  He also added:

"The picture is me and other senior technical bods taken in 1974 in a test area on the top floor of Abbey Road called “the Lab” which is now Room 5 mastering.  Francis Thompson was the tape machine expert, Len Page senior technical man, particularly on disc cutting, Bill Livy was the retiring Chief Engineer, Mike Batchelor was the incoming Chief Engineer who had come from Central Research Labs at Hayes and was the main electronics designer for the TG studio and cutting desks."

If I remember correctly, Chris Buchanan was senior technical engineer at Abbey Road at the time the photo was taken.

So there you have confirmation from one of the guys in the photo - a little piece of history in the making.

Kind regards

Mike

 

[matriachamplification]

Hello GDIY!


In light of GearSpace brand change we are appropriately discussing the history of some audio brands here in this thread. If anyone cares to read about some of the history of Valve innovation I can share thoughts on my research. Mostly informational, but relevant to this conversation.

We wanted to state up front that we may be in the small circle of people who actually benefit from GearSpace name change and we have been working with Liam in their advertising department and now Jules the founder of GS for years. So our insight is legitimate and stated as fact. This is not an invitation to discuss any opinions surrounding this topic.

~
“The Rogers Vacuum Tube Company”

We won't bore you with a long winded history lesson about Valve technology but will discuss some insight into some of history's audio branding with some unique details along the way

To start we named our non-profit corporation Majestic Electric Org. after my long time inspiration Sir. Edward Samuel Rogers Sr., who founded Rogers Majestic sometime around 1925, which was later sold to a NY'er? who rebranded it to Majestic Electric, the appliances company that exists to this day. In 1925 Rogers purchased a patent while in NY for some Tube Tech.

Rogers, (father to Ted Rogers founder of Canadian Communications megalith, Rogers Family of Businesses)  established a long list of manufacturing companies to service his invention of the Battery’less Radio. The Super AC. In the 1920’s batteries were heavy but the Super AC plugged into your light outlet. This was revolutionary at the time and spawned dozens of companies founded by Rogers, too many to list.

Sir Samuel Rogers Sr. founded the Canadian company Rogers Vacuum Tubes. As Mr. Thompson-Bell may recall my original dream was to relaunch Rogers Vacuum Tubes at the 100 year anniversary in 2025. Of course today this is unrealistic but I would be underselling the reality that this could easily grow legs.

Why? Branding. As we see today many of the historic audio developments are being rebranded and revised by various companies at various stages of development. Langevin, Sphere, Electrodyne, Helios, REDD, all now have official representation building on those brands.

Rogers Vacuum Tubes is in the same ballpark and can be revised the only difference being the Rogers Family, Canadian Government and Canadians fully support the rebirth of this Heritage Brand.

To end my point. At the time of Sir Samuels passing, he was investing all his engineering into developing Vacuum Tubes. I predict if he hadn’t passed away after only 16 years give or take of establishing his empire, today Rogers Vacuum Tubes would likely remain a contender.

~

So to conclude the idea that we all become invested in Brands seeing them as a personal item we all own, the reality is they do take on a life of their own with a history that can only unfold when something triggers the validity of something as simple as branding a company.

I hope this is understandable. My memory is in and out

Wall

 

[matriachamplification]

Hi again matriachamplification and Winston,

For your history project, I dropped Chris an email rather that waiting.  He said that the line-up was correct.  He also added:

So there you have confirmation from one of the guys in the photo - a little piece of history in the making.

Kind regards

Mike

That was very mindful. Thank you Mike. please thank Chris for us as well.

 

[matriachamplification]

One may think that Sir. Edward Samuel Rogers Sr. inspired me for his Valve innovation, when in fact it was his ability to implement a corporate manufacturing infrastructure to support his products that I find most compelling.

Sir. John Ambrose Fleming would be the individual who inspired me as history showcases; its not whats been done, but who can show others how its done. Today of course Sir. Fleming is credited with the invention of the Thermionic Valve but the validity to this claim was once discredited under the reasoning that there were iterations on this design that already existed. Even by my own understanding there was a Russian Engineer that devised some part of Vacuum Tube design in the 1900's. Historians who understand the math behind every small detail that went into the realization of the Valve can pinpoint this timeline more effectively them me.

None the less History and resolve set in stone Sir. Fleming as the official inventor. What must have felt like a devastating reality at the time for Fleming, the patent denial, today lives on despite what he may have seen as a failure. Anyone in academics can imagine the rejection. Or I may be off base, I see the emotional connection I suppose.

However it was only last week that Sir. John Ambrose Fleming (Ambrose being my daughters name) made his biggest contribution to my life solidifying my admiration for this man.

"We are apt to consider that invention is the result of spontaneous action of some heavenborn genius, whose advent we must patiently wait for, but cannot artificially produce. It is unquestionable, however, that education, legal enactments, and general social conditions have a stupendous influence on the development of the originative faculty present in a nation and determine whether it shall be a fountain of new ideas or become simply a purchaser from others of ready-made inventions."


We had read this countless times while documenting Valve history but the full impact of his words only connected recently and are worth sharing considering in represents what we see GDIY living up to.

I have some thoughts on Langevin and the "Western Electric Eclectic" that Rick Chinn has provided early tech details that I am attempting to track down online for you all. Gyraf first provided me with the passive eq schematics that I later found out from Gyraf were provided by Chinn. Thrilled to investigate this as some of my my early childhood lessons in audio were on a Langevin console.

 

[ruffrecords]

Wasn't it Einstein who said " genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration"

Cheers

Ian

 

[matriachamplification]

Wasn't it Einstein who said " genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration"

Cheers

Ian

Either Einstein said it, or someone put it beside a picture of him online

http://www.aes-media.org/sections/pnw/mem/kwb/kearneys_mixer.pdf

Here are the documents provided by AES of Mr. Chinns "Kearnys Mixer" Langevin Console. Many may have already read this but it is a worthy re-read none the less.

Thank you AES and Mr. Rick Chinn for providing this wonderful document.

We are most interested in what we have dubbed "The Western Electric Eclectic" and all the different brands that spawned from this core team. Langevin, Sphere, Electrodyne... are there more? Carl Langevin as well as a few other names I cannot recall at this time.

None the less, this is a cool part of the net cast from Western Electric, much of which was  under Carl Langevin' direction.

 

[cyrano]

I think that Edison said "genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration".

dictionary.com seems to agree:

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/genius-is-one-percent-inspiration-and-ninety-nine-percent-perspiration

 

[emrr]

We are most interested in what we have dubbed "The Western Electric Eclectic" and all the different brands that spawned from this core team. Langevin, Sphere, Electrodyne... are there more? Carl Langevin as well as a few other names I cannot recall at this time.

None the less, this is a cool part of the net cast from Western Electric, much of which was  under Carl Langevin' direction.

'

Langevin as far as can be documented was a company that mimicked many things WE as a WWII secondary supplier. 

Altec obviously came out of the WE ERPI division.  All of Don Davis various enterprises intertwine with all. 

RCA after all came out of WE, Westinghouse, and GE. 

It seems foolish to try and draw straight lines.  Sphere and Electrodyne are pretty far removed, Don Davis has moved to Altec from Cinema by this point.    There's the infamously inaccurate Tape Op article written based on interviews with an Electrodyne sales guy; refuting all that's wrong there is a full time job. 

 

[ruffrecords]

I understand EMI Hayes, where REDD was based, has an extensive archive or material from those days. I have no idea if it is accessible to people outside the organisation. Wouldn't hurt to ask though.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Winston OBoogie]

I understand EMI Hayes, where REDD was based, has an extensive archive or material from those days. I have no idea if it is accessible to people outside the organisation. Wouldn't hurt to ask though.

Good luck 
Unfortunately it's not even easily accessible by folks from within the organization. 

The last time I know of anyone getting access to the archive was due to Ken Townsend MBE over-riding protocol
and personally escorting the folks interested to the relevant documents held there.

Abbey Road Studios themselves have pretty much all the stuff we're interested in right in St. John's Wood. 
I think the only stuff of interest to us that they won't have on hand is stuff like the 'minutes' of meetings such as the couple I posted earlier in the thread regarding the cost of building the REDD desks.  Those are from Hayes.

As for asking A.R.S directly,  it was so much easier to get information on the valve desks about 25 - 30 years ago when I was first looking.  Back then, there was no commercial interest for A.R.S.  or E.M.I. in that stuff.  That's all changed now.

I understand.  If commercializing the designs is part of what they have to do to survive in the business these days, more power to them.

 

[ruffrecords]

I'd love to know if there's any info around for the valve desk in DECCA in the 60's.

There was a huge thread a year or so ago on GS about a guy who was restoring a big old tube Decca desk.

Cheers

ian