Audio Historians - REDD/RCA/Langevin/RFT Lorentz/WSW

[matriachamplification]

Centre back looks like a very young Chris Buchanan.

I’ll show it to him when we next meet up after this Covid madness ends 

Mike

Hello Mike

are you able to put us in direct contact with someone whose worked at or even works at Abbey Roads Studio.

I want to make sure they are aware we are recreating their studio(s) for our interactive sandbox game.

Thanks

Wallace

 

[matriachamplification]

Noted Winston. Thanks for letting me know the details.

Fortunately the Red innovation programs focus on Unreal Engine 3D audio integration and we are approaching our relationship with them from this vantage point hoping to parlay our conversation towards REDD Consoles.

The aid I would be looking for is... what documents would be of interest to the community.

None the less this has all been an amazing learning experience for me and my family.

Thanks again!

 

[jacomart]

This topic is gold Winston! Thanks so much!

Cheers
JM

 

[madswitcher]

Hello Mike

are you able to put us in direct contact with someone whose worked at or even works at Abbey Roads Studio.

I want to make sure they are aware we are recreating their studio(s) for our interactive sandbox game.

Thanks

Wallace

Could you kindly PM me with some background and details of what you are doing, and what you want from them and I'll do my best.  Since we have made contact already regarding the Painton faders, you could use that e-mail address.

Kind regards

Mike

 

[matriachamplification]

Great stuff Winston!

To build a bit on your current subject matter. Here is a link to a preservation sounds article about Art Davis and Don Davis, who were not related.

http://www.preservationsound.com/2010/12/altec-professional-audio-controls-paper-circa-1962/

 

[Squeaky]

For one: given the countless small-signal/pre amps from various brands with variable feedback/gain and other doo-dats etc. that sell to mass market and that I've used, taken apart, or had any sort of hand in the design of, I'm at the point now where I'm convinced that there's a lot to be said for fixed gain amps.

Nothing beats an amplifier that's operating at its optimum level of gain/-tve feedback.  Unless I'm looking for an effect or something, I think I'd much rather suffer a little noise penalty by using pads/attenuators than change the loop feedback, with all that that entails.

Thanks Winston for the observation re amp operating point vs attenuator noise penalty. Comments like this give me food for thought.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

they referenced to, something like .447V, give or take a bit of a volt.

Which, coincidentally, equates to 1mW into aforementioned 200 ohms. 

 

[Matt Syson]

Hi
I suppose for my 2 centimes worth I could point out that switched gain controls have the potenial (although probably not realised) of being more 'equivalent' in sound at different gain settings as different 'networks' can be introduced at each step so both resistance and capacitance which could compensate for changing feedback response in a way similar to frequency compensated gain switches in gear like oscilloscopes or wideband metering gear although there is a difference i one being 'series' and the other shunt. This sort of 'compensation' cannot be applied when a pot is used for the gain setting variable. Not seen any single shaft pots with variable caps (think Medium wave tuning caps) added to the rear to keep the high frequency gain response constant available 'off the shelf'.
i suppose some of the earlier Rupert Neve designed (and others) mic amplifier units had three 'optimised' gain stages here for low gain requirements one stage would be bypassed.
Thinking aloud and the talk of quadrant faders on another thread, I suppose frequency compensated 'stud contact' faders SHOULD be the thing. 600 Ohm types would be near constant HF response but certainly 10K if feeding into screened cable to the following amplifier stage will see varying HF response (arguments about 'Passive preamps' come to mind.

 

[gyraf]

..would make sense if they referred to 1mW into 200 Ohms, not 600 Ohms,,

 

[ruffrecords]

We discussed some of this "compensated switched gain" stuff in another thread. The basic problem is that if you have a fixed open loop gain and vary the closed loop gain simply by altering the NFB, then the amount of feedback (open loop gain dB - closed loop gain dB) varies over a large range and this is what makes compensation difficult.

What you need is a way of keeping the amount of feedback more or less constant despite changing the closed loop gain. One way to do this is to vary the open loop gain at the same time as you vary the closed loop gain, thus keeping the amount of feedback nearly constant so a single compensation is all that is needed. This sounds complicated but in practice it is not too hard to do with discrete designs. The V76 did it and I think one of the earlier V40 series did too. The Neve three transistor amp does it as does the classic Helios three transistor amp. I do it in my EZTubeMixer design and the well known TransAmp does it too.
Cheers

Ian

 

[TimG]

Is this where I oughta to post this RS114 if you all haven’t seen it yet?

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/273...xcBDyF4I-HlGDvxc1pyZXvulMNEme2-cvddgY3GFsoaEI

 

[silvertone]

It seems foolish to try and draw straight lines. Sphere and Electrodyne are pretty far removed, Don Davis has moved to Altec from Cinema by this point. There's the infamously inaccurate Tape Op article written based on interviews with an Electrodyne sales guy; refuting all that's wrong there is a full time job.

Hey Doug,

I just ran across this. I thought we straighten this out years ago but I guess I was wrong.

I take offense to the statement above. The article, which I spent months writing and researching, was not only with some “sales guy”, it was also John Hall, Bob Ohlson, Don McLaughlin, David Geren, etc…

Yes, I would agree there are some inaccuracies in the article, but that’s what you get when you’re interviewing 80+ year old engineers. In fact it was people like Bob Ohlson that helped to straighten out some of the John Hall discrepancies. Had I known you at the time I was writing the article, I certainly would have tried to tap your experience/knowledge base.

That “sales guy“ you mentioned is Don King and he was the head of the sales management team. He was involved in all aspects of the company. Then again, I was dealing with someone in their mid 80’s trying to recount stuff from 50+ years prior… he might not be spot on 100% but he certainly supplied a lot of good useful information.

I did the best I could to research the information I was given by the people who participated in the article (their credit’s are listed at the end), many who read and corrected different aspects of the article before I turned it in. Unfortunately, we don’t quite have all the information, of the connections, from that era. It certainly isn’t as well documented as it is today.

Keep in mind hardly anybody knew the names, Electrodyne, Quad Eight and Sphere at the time the article was written.

Regardless, there is a lot of good useful information in that article. Just the brochures and picture certainly shed some light on the time. I would have never guessed in a million years that Electrodyne built one of the Decca consoles but they certainly did.

Anyway IIWII.

Best Regards,
Larry DeVivo

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Hey Wall,
Sorry to do a scourge of erasing in your old thread, but felt the need to pull all posts in this thread related to the REDD info I'd written/divulged, sorry.
I'm sure you won't really need what was here though and someone who geeks on this stuff probably saved it if it was worth it so, I'm sure a scheme of the ezrly RS114 and the REDD pop and 'classic' eq plug ins. will surface again.
Someone posted the pic of the 114 up there so, try him maybe.
D.J.H.

 

[pucho812]

All this talk of REDD no mention of BRED….
From what little I have found, REDD did all emi owned studios. BRED made gear but for mon emi owned studios.

Does anyone have any BRED info?

 

[Winston OBoogie]

All this talk of REDD no mention of BRED….
From what little I have found, REDD did all emi owned studios. BRED made gear but for mon emi owned studios.

Does anyone have any BRED info?

Pucho, BRED was broadcasting equipment. I think a lot went to radio and TV stations. I have no info myself on designs, and none of the EMI old timers I've spoken to, or have spoken on record, seem to have had any tech info either.
I might have a few pics somewhere but it'd take an archaeological dig to find.

Folks, I have no intention of being a hoarder and will write/rewrite up a lot of REDD info one of these days and find a host page for it. Look for a link here or at good record shops near you, probably titled along the lines of
"Winston O'Boogie's Diary of a Loser" but, alternate titles (sent in on a postcard) are always welcome

 

[pucho812]

Pucho, BRED was broadcasting equipment. I think a lot went to radio and TV stations. I have no info myself on designs, and none of the EMI old timers I've spoken to, or have spoken on record, seem to have had any tech info either.
I might have a few pics somewhere but it'd take an archaeological dig to find.

Folks, I have no intention of being a hoarder and will write/rewrite up a lot of REDD info one of these days and find a host page for it. Look for a link here or at good record shops near you, probably titled along the lines of
"Winston O'Boogie's Diary of a Loser" but, alternate titles (sent in on a postcard) are always welcome

Yes, bred was mainly broadcast equipment. Iirc bred = broadcast recording, engineering development.

 

[Tubetec]

Hopefully all is well with Wallace and family ,

I have to say it , this systematic pulling the guts out of threads then regurgitation is going to get boring very fast ,
Has anyone faced legal ramifications because of posts here ,or cease and desist letters , I doubt it ,
whats all the needless fuss about Winston?
Why spend the time backpedaling over all the good contributions , you never know you might even regret it at the end of the day .
Whats so special about EMI gear anyway , every other bit of desirable vintage gear has been well documented all over this site and no one ended up in jail over it .

I can only hope you reconsider this exercise in futility ,
of course it entirely your decision ,
but I think it hurts the spirit of this place when posts just vanish into thin air ,

This thought also goes out to admin, for locking and dissapearing threads with unfavourable comments on the running of the site .

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Fair enough David. And
There is nothing special about EMI gear. Nothing special about me either.

On legalities: I once had to pull a bunch of my early posts because they contained old EMI schematics and I had entered into an agreement with EMI (circa 2007ish) whereby I would give them a trademark I owned (REDD.47 look it up on USPTO if ya wish, I secured it because they hadn't) for an undisclosed sum. I also agreed not to share any old documents. I obliged by mass deleting about 600 posts as it was easier than sifting.
I still shared them, like the RS.124, but had to be discrete. Or a few schematics, under different names such as Frank Einstein who shared the TG limiter which has now been built by lots of folks on here. Also under "Jean clochet"

Now, I'm just done with this place and merely wish to leave in a manner in which I don't have any responsibilities which include, having to defend myself. There were posts on this forum which contained VERY serious insinuations or allegations which were simply incorrect. They were not retracted, and the chief mod actually seemed to side with some of these posts because he "liked" them. Well **** that, I was one of the folks that helped start this place and got it off the ground. I think I have been a decent contributor over the years.
Im also not wishing to invite ire from EMI, because I'm too old for that **** and don't even do audio for a living or even hobby anymore, haven't for 13 years.
I have similar verbal agreements to not share the "Sound Techniques A range" because a friend of a friend now owns the rights, but I now say "**** it" there too because, it also isn't that special in design. I was the first person who actually received the original blueprint from the designer Geoff Frost a couple of decades ago. But the new owner of that company (bought from Geoff Frost) isn't making it easy for folks to buy a channel. So I'll have someone I know or trust on here redraw the thing and post it instead of me.

I would actually prefer that all my posts just disappeared because I now feel that I wasted 20 years posting my splatter here.
But there are folks who actually like this old stuff so, the best thing for me is to erase stuff that keeps me out of things, leave other stuff that might be useful, although I'm really just an un3fucated idiot savant at the end of the day.
But have someone else just curate or take over REDD stuff or Universal Audio stuff I was involved with, Sound Techniques etc. and anything else.

But honestly, the last 2 weeks here have turned my stomach and I would prefer to just have John or any other mod erase all my **** and everyone forget I existed here.
I just read that someone else got banned from here by the new owners for pulling his own intellectual property offline so, that's also what I seem to be up against.
But if a friend like you (that's how I feel anyway) feels this way towards me now, then it only reaffirms that I should just leave and let you guys get on with what this place is turning into.
I guess it's just better to leave what I have up here and just let you guys talk about whatever you want and I'll just keep whatever stuff I have left of a reputation here, along with my schematic library for myself and anyone who feels like chatting about this stuff for elsewhere
Sorry to cause issues. This particular thread was mostly me waffling on too much about REDD desks anyway so you won't miss my deletes.

See ya David.

 

[Tubetec]

I saw what unfolded here the last number of weeks ,
I think AP went over the top like never before ,
He was a difficult person to find agreement with on anything
, the single most argumentative person on the entire site ,
I agree he owed you a public appology , but packing his trunk and saying goodbye to the circus might be the best we can hope for at this stage .

There was something flipped AP's switch in the last month or so , the viciousness of the argumentation and biases increased and he became more entrenched than ever , I think the constant news feed on the middle eastern situation has people riled up on all sides ,
Were all being manipulated by this ******** divide and conquer media and it fuels the personal conflict situations weve seen lately .

 

[scott2000]

This thought also goes out to admin, for locking and dissapearing threads with unfavourable comments on the running of the site

Nice knowing you...lol