Brexit

[micaddict]

A couple of days after the divorce papers were signed and going to war (over Gibraltar) gets discussed already.

 

[tands]

As a yank it seems odd the animosity towards Brits from people in other countries, for leaving. It's their right to leave if they want to. Juncker and Schnauble would be enough for me to Brexit.

 

[micaddict]

As a yank it seems odd the animosity towards Brits from people in other countries, for leaving.

?

It's their right to leave if they want to.

I fully agree.

 

[tands]

I don't know, maybe I'm imagining the animosity. Maybe bankers in London are responsible.

 

[ramshackles]

I don't know, maybe I'm imagining the animosity. Maybe bankers in London are responsible.

I don't feel there is animosity from the EU so much - sadness maybe. I do feel it has legitimised animosity and racism in the UK (or rather racists feel legitimised). My wife, who is French, suffered racism - albeit minor - for the first time in her life post brexit. It must be awful for people from further afield. I know a handful of poles who have had awful stuff said to them, and of course there was the shameful attack on a young asylum seeker this week. The biggest threat to the well-being of the UK is not migrants but white British chavs

 

[tands]

You have to be a real a@@hole to be nasty to people because they're Polish, that's for sure.

 

[ruffrecords]

A couple of days after the divorce papers were signed and going to war (over Gibraltar) gets discussed already.

Bound to happen. It's a divorce. All kinds of unpleasant things will be said and will happen. Bottom line is the UK stands for freedom and we will be free of the bureaucratic stranglehold of the EU.

Cheers

Ian

 

[volker]

You are also free of easy access to the domestic EU market and can look forward to customs duties and less trade in general, free of easy transit of necessary high and low level workers, free of investments from foreign countries and industries, free of European trade deals with outside countries, free of having influence on what is happening right in front of you and taking part in important decisions, free of being part of a cross national security system in times of instability, free of all sorts of subsidies, free of responsibility for humans that didn't have the luck to be born into the UK or Europe, free of being a part of Europe's future and the values it stands for, you prefer sitting alone. Godspeed.

 

[ramshackles]

you prefer sitting alone. Godspeed.

A narrow majority prefer that.

This is interesting:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/09/brexit-talks-plan-for-uk-nationals-to-keep-eu-citizenship-verhofstadt

As much as I would like to see that happen, I dont know that it is realistic. Plus what would the cost be to an individual?

 

[ruffrecords]

You are also free of easy access to the domestic EU market and can look forward to customs duties and less trade in general,

Unlikely, we import more from the EU than we export to it. Trade barriers would hurt the EU more

free of easy transit of necessary high and low level workers,

Europe is not the only source of these. We still have the Commonwealth. Hopefully we can repair some of the damage that getting into the EU did in the first place.

free of investments from foreign countries and industries,

Patently untrue. It is beginning to look like most investors think we are a better bet out of the EU

free of European trade deals with outside countries,

A definite benefit. Such an agreement has destroyed our steel industry

free of having influence on what is happening right in front of you and taking part in important decisions,

I think you got that backwards

free of being part of a cross national security system in times of instability,

That is independent of the EU

free of all sorts of subsidies,

and free of the even larger ontributions.

free of responsibility for humans that didn't have the luck to be born into the UK or Europe,

Patently untrue.

free of being a part of Europe's future and the values it stands for,

Yes, free of being told what to do by the unelected elite

you prefer sitting alone. Godspeed.

We prefer the freedom to determine our own future.

Cheers

Ian
[/quote]

 

[L´Andratté]

Yes, free of being told what to do by the unelected elite

I can really sympathize with that, but I´m afraid it´s highly idealistic.
Think about Warren Buffet´s infamous sentence. The unelected elite will find ways to get to you, as it has already pocketed most national governments anyway. It´s true though that there´s not even symbolic democratic legitimation for the EU commission.

I also highly recommend to not fall into the British people against EU people trap.
It´s (as mentioned before) so easy to be divided and conquered (by the enemies of freedom, who are they really? ).  And we´re all in it together anyway.

Hope it works out well for the British now it´s really happening. Gotta buy those Sowters quickly now...

 

[ruffrecords]

I can really sympathize with that, but I´m afraid it´s highly idealistic.

Nothing wrong with high ideals.

Cheers

Ian

 

[L´Andratté]

Nothing wrong with high ideals.

Cheers

Ian

Of course not. But they should be accompanied by a healthy dose of mistrust towards powers. I just wanted to point out that the world is going to change in a way that will soon become very unpleasant for most people. If we do not fight for our freedom together and for all (and maybe even then). It will not be presented to us by some imaginary benevolent government, be it national or whatever.  Maybe that goes without saying for you, but how am I to know?

Optimist meeting a pessimist. Pessimist (sighing):"It can´t get worse!" Optimist:"Of course it can!"

 

[micaddict]

LOL

 

[ruffrecords]

Of course not. But they should be accompanied by a healthy dose of mistrust towards powers.

I think that is exactly what triggered it in the first place. Our own politicians had demonstrated how selfish they were in the expenses scandal, which only served to amplify the belief that those in power in Brussels are only in it for themselves, and not to serve the people. I am surprised so many people were surprised by the result of the referendum

I just wanted to point out that the world is going to change in a way that will soon become very unpleasant for most people.

It is easy to predict armageddon. Look at all the people who predicted instant dire economic consequences if we voted leave. I won't pretend it will be easy. All change is difficult and people naturally resist it but I am sure it will not be "very unpleasant for most people"

If we do not fight for our freedom together and for all (and maybe even then).

Someone has to stand up first. It just happened to be us.

It will not be presented to us by some imaginary benevolent government, be it national or whatever.  Maybe that goes without saying for you, but how am I to know?

No issue with that.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Script]

New elections announced for June 8.

Nice idea but four months too llate...

 

[DaveP]

Nice idea but four months too late...

Not really, May's popularity is rising and Corbyn's is rock bottom now, perfect timing.

DaveP

 

[rob_gould]

Yup, a very cynical move.  That's politics!

 

[JohnRoberts]

Not really, May's popularity is rising and Corbyn's is rock bottom now, perfect timing.

DaveP

and the polls are always accurate. 

JR

 

[Script]

A two thirds majority is needed in parliament first though.

Anyway, elections should have been earlier, actually right after the referendum, as the election was also a vote against the ruling elite in Britain . British democracy seem to be taking it yet another notch down in my books.

First the referendum campaigning on both sides -- then the decision to treat a decision that was close in votes (but clearly less than the majority of the entire population) as the 'will of the people' -- then the attempt to circumvent any say of parliament and lords in the process -- and now new elections for self-serving objectives.

I really fail to see how this is democracy in all its glory.