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Britain does not have a problem with "Brown People" like these [...]

Only with ones like these:-
https://www.itv.com/news/2018-08-08/rochdale-grooming-gang-members-face-possible-deportation-after-losing-appeal/
Probably 99.999 percent of the world population and more have a problem with types like that -- be they brown, white, yellow, green, purple or chequered. Since 2000, a total of 37immigrants have had their UK citizenship revoked under UK law existing since before the referendum. Truly nasty individuals indeed !!

However, it shouldn't really call for a far right-wing government to tackle the problem. Australia revokes the citizenship of serious immigrant offenders and so does Japan (deportation). Whether that's a good idea or not -- for society in general and as a message to other immigrants who had been granted citizenship -- is an entirely different discussion though.
 
However, it shouldn't really call for a far right-wing government to tackle the problem.
No it shouldn't, but the hard left seem to avoid calls like that.

By the way, The Conservatives (even under Boris) are not what most people call "Hard Right", that term is reserved for actual Nazis, Mussolini, Franco and some South American regimes.  These terms get bandied about far too often.

DaveP 
 
No it shouldn't, but the hard left seem to avoid calls like that.
Yeah, not only them. Add a lot of 'liberal'-minded people as well who hopelessly over-interpreted PC...

By the way, The Conservatives (even under Boris) are not what most people call "Hard Right", that term is reserved for actual Nazis, Mussolini, Franco and some South American regimes.  These terms get bandied about far too often.
That's true. Sorry, my bad. I first wanted to write just 'conservative' but that would have been very inadequate.  I should have used ultra-conservative instead. Anyway, I was referring to maybe some ultra-conservatives (among Tories) and probably some of Boris' advisers (as it seems). But mainly I was referring to the prospect and possible outcome of reelections, and in particular  the role that Farage and his brigade (who I would call pretty right-leaning after all) want to play in it.
 
DaveP said:
No it shouldn't, but the hard left seem to avoid calls like that.

By the way, The Conservatives (even under Boris) are not what most people call "Hard Right", that term is reserved for actual Nazis, Mussolini, Franco and some South American regimes.  These terms get bandied about far too often.

DaveP

I hope it's true about the Conservatives in Britain. In the US, unfortunately, some members of the administration have already crossed that line.
 
I said I don't believe in opinion polls and I still don't. Too much of a singular point in time. Yet poll results are interesting when comparing results by different sources over longer periods.

IIRC, I read somewhere that, even if 'regretters' are taken into account, 'leave' would still have won in the 2016 referendum by 400,000 votes. However, there seem to be very good reasons for hard-line Brexiteers not wanting a referendum on anything today and for quite some time already. The following graphs (switchable to tables) suggest that today the very claim that " 'leaving the EU' represents the 'will of the people' " is wrong -- and it is very likely that it does not represent the will of most people in the UK today.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/
(Interestingly, the 'Don't know' anwsers oscillate a lot.)

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/
(Interestingly, the 'Don't know' anwsers don't oscillate much.)

Also, there's an interesting comment insinuating that leaving under a 'no-deal' is likely to not reconcile UK's split society -- on the contrary:
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/do-voters-back-the-possibility-of-leaving-without-a-deal/

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And now let's diss the source ;)
 
Boris Johnson has been chastised for manipulating the shutdown of Parliament by the Suprem Court.

I am a remainer, but I am trying to be even handed here............

Parliament is manipulating events to prevent an exit without a deal and preventing an election because they know they would lose to Boris.  In other words, they are telling the majority who voted to leave, that they know better.

They are trying to kick the date down the road until it gets lost in the long grass.

Even as a remainer I can see that the majority are really going to punish these people in the next election, its elitism and patronising to frustrate a referendum in this way.  It makes people lose faith in democracy and that is really serious.
They've had three years for goodness sake, its obvious now they never had any intention of letting Brexit happen.

DaveP
 
DaveP said:
Boris Johnson has been chastised for manipulating the shutdown of Parliament by the Suprem Court.

I am a remainer, but I am trying to be even handed here............

Parliament is manipulating events to prevent an exit without a deal and preventing an election because they know they would lose to Boris.  In other words, they are telling the majority who voted to leave, that they know better.

They are trying to kick the date down the road until it gets lost in the long grass.

Even as a remainer I can see that the majority are really going to punish these people in the next election, its elitism and patronising to frustrate a referendum in this way.  It makes people lose faith in democracy and that is really serious.
They've had three years for goodness sake, its obvious now they never had any intention of letting Brexit happen.

DaveP
But is the issue really only about Brexit? If they let BJ have his way, he will may conduct a policy that they disapprove. It's actually impossible to know his intentions, because he has only dealt with Brexit, but many analysts surmise he will establish a strong link with Trump, and try to replace the loss of the European market with a an extended Commonwealth, which may or may not work. in addition foreign policy would be influenced by the Trump/Nethanyaou/Bolsonaro connection. Does the British people want that?
I know that the most important subject for politicians is being reelected, but some still have convictions.
 
But is the issue really only about Brexit? If they let BJ have his way, he will may conduct a policy that they disapprove. It's actually impossible to know his intentions, because he has only dealt with Brexit, but many analysts surmise he will establish a strong link with Trump, and try to replace the loss of the European market with a an extended Commonwealth, which may or may not work. in addition foreign policy would be influenced by the Trump/Nethanyaou/Bolsonaro connection. Does the British people want that?
I know that the most important subject for politicians is being reelected, but some still have convictions.
You make a fair point, but we are still aligned more with Europe I think (we let the tanker go) Bolsonaro is on another planet, or we wish he was.

DaveP
 
Anybody still smirking at all, only groups of or any single individual of UK politicians after yesterday's sickening UK parliament session has taken another major step toward waving goodbye to democracy  -- only they don't know it yet.

I hear the far right chuckling loudly in their holes... Just my opinion.

Loved Bercow's statement today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L4YCbOn5sY

 
Boris Johnson's main fault yesterday, was that he conveyed far far too clearly what most of the UK public think of this Parliament. 

They are living in their own bubble at the moment and will only find out about reality again after the next Election.

After three and a half years of talking most people realise that there is no compromise to be found (or they would have found it by now), so they just want the mess to end so that everyone can get out of this limbo and make plans again.  This Parliament is far too self-indulgent and they think the public will just let them debate for ever, they have such a shock coming!

DaveP
 
A recent poll showed that over 60% of supporters of both main parties want a general election now. I agree. It is abut time we got rid of this selfish elitist shower.

Cheers

Ian
 
Theres spit and hair flying 
and weeping and knashing of teeth.
A handfull of aristocrats have turned  the whole show into a circus ,Borris ends up  looking like court jester/class clown as usual  , the public are infuriated enough to vote in Labour easily , but Corbin cant seem  to make the transition from opposition  to governmental stance in front of the public .
What ever recipe the hidden powers are cooking up with the aid of social media it seems to be leading to weak ass propped up minority governments and  hung parliments everywhere , even the the Israeli Parliment isnt immune with no clear majority .
Have Israeli secret services finally out foxed themselves, not likely ,everythings probably going 'just tickety boo' according to plan.




 
Tubetec said:
Have Israeli secret services finally out foxed themselves, not likely ,everythings probably going 'just tickety boo' according to plan.

That's the worst probably. Even those don't seem to have a real plan.

I mean, lots of people imagine a global conspiracy. I've never found one. Thousands of small ones, yes.

And that's what's driving progress. Not common sense, not science, not politics. Just some old-fashioned conflicts of interest.
 
General elections will be up soon, quite sure of that, but not before November. And I don't think elections gonna change much. It'll be pretty much the same personell. Unless... ... and again I hear the clanking of the far-right prep'ing their champagne bottles in anticipation.

Creating a situation for your enemy  -- in this case parliament as the symbol of democracy  -- and driving them to the point where they discredit themselves is a far-right tactic that has, as of late, nowhere across all of Europe been pushed that far and been that successful as in Britain. Crazily enough, non-far-right British politicians went along with it out of free will ! The sooner everybody in Britain realised they'd better stop playing into those hands through half-antidemocratic comments and spite, the better.

Putting a deadline to it all has been a good idea, I think. But the poker game doesn't seem to work out. Maybe because the current government simply forgot to take the opposition on board !? The way it is still being claimed that negotiations are making progress is close to grotesk. Those negotiations must be so highly classified that even EU negotiators don't know about them... Although, there was talk of "papers" with ideas not to be made public.

No matter what it will become --no-deal, second referendum, remain (?) -- it's not going to reconcile the country. (A no-deal would make only the far-right happy, while no-one in their right mind could possibly want that, including the PM.) Apart from that, in the end, it's always pretty much half of British society that will be utterly disappointed -- fuelled also by the circumstances under which the referendum had been held.

One seemingly absurd but possible solution would be, first, for everybody among British politicians and the public to finally realise they have to cut down on their expectations and, second, to finally together strike a deal with the EU that is -- and is rather more than less -- disappointing to most of Brits. Sad but true: nothing reconciles more than the feeling of having "lost something  (or someone)".

"Not emotionally attached to (the word !) backstop but the principle behind it" really means: cross out that word and think of another placeholder, or go back to May's first plan. The EU simply cannot and won't give up on that principle behind it. But I think they also coudn't care less about what it's called. There's no shame in going back and picking up on old ideas once rejected. The entire referendum and its outcome, for that matter, after three years and a half (!), is an old idea by now.

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I refuse to believe that the British electorate is fed up with ("selfish elitist") politicians per se (which effectively means all politicians according to current discourse!), but they sure are fed up with purely party political tactics and manoeuvreing, which is clearly taking place on all political sides in the UK.
 
Please stop using the term far right, which would have been Oswald Mosely back in the thirties.

Conservatives on 33% and Brexit Party on 14% make 47% of the British People, they are not far right, they just want Brexit over and done with.

Labour are sitting on the fence on Brexit so the Lib Dems are picking up the remain vote on19%  Labour could well come third this time around.

DaveP
 
Wikipedia:
The UK Independence Party (UKIP /ˈjuːkɪp/) is a hard Eurosceptic, right-wing to far-right political party in the United Kingdom.
I was referring to UKIP,  its members and all former members. Party names  and the personnel of parties change, underlying political views and convictions of individuals are less likely to do so.

I don't want to use "right-wing populist" for them, probably the correct political scientific term, cos as of now that might unwillingly also include several politicians of the current government and opposition. But I wouldn't call those far-right at all. What they do, if at all, is using populist tactics to fish for votes.

Wikipedia:
The Brexit Party is a Eurosceptic political party in the United Kingdom [...] Generally described as populist [...] Many of its supporters were formerly of the UK Independence Party (UKIP) [...] There have also been some endorsements from left-wing supporters of Brexit
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I am referring to far-right people in these two parties and their far-right supporters. I should include far-left wing (but those don't seem to be the majority). Could call all of them 'extremists'.
 

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