Brexit

[abbey road d enfer]

Jo Swinson (main remainer) lost her seat, so did Chuka Ummana.

Is it because of their position towards Brexit or because of their antics? The fact that Nicola Sturgeon lauded her demise seems to indicate that Brexit is not their point of contention.

 

[Tubetec]

I guess a solid majority is better than a minority government anyday , but how can anyone be sure voter manipulation wasnt used .
Around 15 years ago here in Ireland some numb nut politician convinced the rest to buy into electronic voting machines , in the end they werent used at all due to the possibility of them being hackable , of course now the people with the power to control elections outcomes just need to give the undecideds a  slight tug in the right direction via the electronic leash (smart phone).

Mix data aggregation ,social media engineering and politics , you end up with the Emperor with no clothes .

 

[DaveP]

the people with the power to control elections outcomes just need to give the undecideds a  slight tug in the right direction via the electronic leash (smart phone).

The electorate of the UK is much older and they don't have twitter or FB accounts, so that had little effect.  What influenced most of these  voters was the televised farce in our Parliament.  They are paid to sort out these issues and they did next to nothing but argue for three years.

DaveP

 

[DaveP]

Is it because of their position towards Brexit or because of their antics? The fact that Nicola Sturgeon lauded her demise seems to indicate that Brexit is not their point of contention.

Nicola Sturgeon only cares about an independent Scotland.  I don't think that Spain will be happy to see that happen for obvious reasons.  I don't think that  5.4 million people can make a viable  country, especially with their oil becoming a pariah.

DaveP

 

[living sounds]

The electorate of the UK is much older and they don't have twitter or FB accounts, so that had little effect.  What influenced most of these  voters was the televised farce in our Parliament.  They are paid to sort out these issues and they did next to nothing but argue for three years.

DaveP

We have a substantial problem here in Germany with older folks radicalized via disinformation on the internet, I doubt it is much different in Britain.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

We have a substantial problem here in Germany with older folks radicalized via disinformation on the internet, I doubt it is much different in Britain.

I tend to agree. Whatever the era and age stratum, people are influenced; hawkers, minstrels, pamphlets, newspapers, guilds, clergy, radio, television... Internet and "social" media are just an addition to the toolkit.
"Old" people who don't get their info from the internet get them from radio/TV/papers, where the news are concocted and presented by people who do. No one is immune...

 

[ruffrecords]

Well, wait 'till the NHS is sold to the private sector...

It won't be. It never was even considered. No UK politician would dare to propose it. There would be riots - I guarantee it.

Cheers

Ian

 

[ruffrecords]

I am proud of the British electorate for their common sense.

They saw  the referendum result being frustrated  and obstructed in Parliament and the people responsible for that have been severely punished in the polls.

Corbyn trotted out massive bribes and last century nationalisation, but they were all soundly rejected  by a thinking electorate.

DaveP

1K

Ian

 

[ruffrecords]

Well, that's really just an opinion.

"Can we all jump off this cliff now so we can get on with our lives?"

You miss the point. The electorate voted to leave. Significant elements of Parliament did the best to frustrate the will of the people and maintain the elite status quo. This really pissed off the pubic. When given a second chance to vote in someone who would deliver what they originally asked the electorate responded  yes, bloody well get on with it.

This is about the elected doing what they were elected to do not what they think is best for us.

Cheers

Ian

 

[ruffrecords]

We have a substantial problem here in Germany with older folks radicalized via disinformation on the internet, I doubt it is much different in Britain.

Unless the 'old folk' in Germany are significantly different to old folk in the UK they are not glued to their phones and the internet and thought of using the internet to radicalise old folk is frankly laughable.

Cheers

Ian

 

[cyrano]

We have a substantial problem here in Germany with older folks radicalized via disinformation on the internet, I doubt it is much different in Britain.

Same here. Same lies over and over again. Latest one: if you own a house and it's not inhabited, the govt will confiscate it to house fugitives. Simply not true. If you have no tenants, you'll pay additional tax. That's all.

It's quite amusing really. If you prove them wrong, they'll still keep mumbling the mantra. Like a murmuring brook.

 

[cyrano]

Unless the 'old folk' in Germany are significantly different to old folk in the UK they are not glued to their phones and the internet and thought of using the internet to radicalise old folk is frankly laughable.

Cheers

Ian

Who needs the internet when the good old gossip circuit is still alive and kicking?

 

[Tubetec]

So Scotland comes out strongly remain , and  effectively in favour of seperation
Northern Irelands biggest political party the DUP ends up with its chief not getting a seat in parliment and loosing to the Sinn Fein candidate who will never take his seat in London , also its 'kingmaker' card is gone as Borris now has a commanding majority in parliment , a good day for democracy over all.

Lets just say Scotland 'remains' , most goods leaving northern Ireland go Larne - Stranraer, goods coming out of N.Ireland now need to take a much longer sea route to hit 'freeport' UK .  A border between England and Scotland and down through the Irish sea seems the most likely outcome , and Northern Ireland ends up effectively walled off by sea and land from the mothership ?
Its f king preposterous .

There is a strong case by concensus for England and Wales to leave the EU , Scotland and Northern Ireland are a different story entirely , there does seem to be a promise from the 'Re-qualified' Borris to kick Irelands Northern Assembly up the ass to start representing its people once again , this is another plus for democracy on this Island .

'The strongest Conservative vote since the days of Maggie Thatcher' , and Ive a strange feeling Cons used trickery most foul on the most marginalised white people in the hope of a blonde haired blue eyed tomorrow ,

the revolution will not be televised, Amen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGaoXAwl9kw

 

[Rob Flinn]

In my view this General election was really a second brexit referendum and nothing else.  Corbyn lost seats because that was the one thing he didn't cover in his manifesto.  He covered everything else apart from the most important point & never had a concrete opinion on the subject.  Numerous times he was interviewed on tv and asked about his stance on brexit & he basicially said nothing.  He said he would renegotiate, but gave no details of what he would be negotiating about & then put it to another referendum.    Well guess what Jeremy, this was the second referendum.  When the original brexit vote was taken the only thing I heard him say on a tv interview was that it was "probably" better to  stay in.  I don't like either Boris or Corbyn & personally I would like to have stayed in Europe, but it's not going to happen now.

 

[Tubetec]

'Lets get Brexit done'
Johnson clearly showed much more 'statesmans' like qualities to the public than the dour Corbyn'
Borris is a bluffer , Jeremy is perhaps more aware of the bridges that need building .

Its England and Wales that are ending up odd men out ,and a marginalised but determined wedge in the politics of Northern Ireland .

 

[DaveP]

The Labour Party has changed dramatically over my lifetime, I have voted for Blair several times but I could never vote for Corbyn.

They started out representing working class men and women who  paid rent and many wrongs from the 1930's were put right.  Then, in the 60's and 70's, they pushed their demands so far with strikes and demarcation disputes that industries like the London docks and BMC went into decline as goods from other countries started to be more competitive.

The crazy thing was that the unions behaved worse for labour governments than they did for the conservatives.  Corbyn was a dinosaur left over from this era that today's youth never experienced.  They were suckered by his  hard left nirvana.

Blair was smart enough to recognise that peoples living standards had improved and that many now owned their own homes.  This put Labour in a dilemma and they started to look around for other causes than the working class man.  They found these causes in the IRA, Hamas (hence antisemitism) LGBTQxyz , BAME and everything other than their core white voters.

Living in the Westminster/Islington bubble they had no idea of the s**t they were in until they hit the doorstep in the North and Midlands, the rest is recent history.

For our American readers, the Democratic party looks to be choosing a similar path, they have no charismatic candidates so they are all polishing up their minority credentials whilst ignoring the white working class from their original base.

DaveP

 

[living sounds]

Unless the 'old folk' in Germany are significantly different to old folk in the UK they are not glued to their phones and the internet and thought of using the internet to radicalise old folk is frankly laughable.

Cheers

Ian

People of all ages now use Facebook, Whatsapp and other social media. People over the age of 65 share fake news the most by a huge margin.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/9/18174631/old-people-fake-news-facebook-share-nyu-princeton

And other studies have shown that disinformation works very well on many people. It's easy to create false memories, people will confabulate facts, it's shocking how bad the brains of the best among as at assessing reality. So "Common Sense" is not necessarily a good thing.

 

[ruffrecords]

Who needs the internet when the good old gossip circuit is still alive and kicking?

The significant advantage of gossip is that you can look the source in the face.

Cheers

Ian

 

[ruffrecords]

Same here. Same lies over and over again. Latest one: if you own a house and it's not inhabited, the govt will confiscate it to house fugitives. Simply not true. If you have no tenants, you'll pay additional tax. That's all.

It's quite amusing really. If you prove them wrong, they'll still keep mumbling the mantra. Like a murmuring brook.

Sounds just like gearslutz. Common sense tells you not to take any notice of them.

Cheers

Ian

 

[ruffrecords]

So Scotland comes out strongly remain , and  effectively in favour of seperation

Separation could be difficult. First there would need to be a referendum which Nicola Sturgeon would have to win. On past performance and the actual percentage of the electorate that actually voted for her, this is unlikely. Even if she wins, by that time the UK will have left the EU. So suppose Scotland becomes independent. She is on record as saying she wants to join the EU. Assuming she does then there will need to be a Scottish backstop which SHE will have to implement and fund. I can see that happening - not.

Cheers

Ian