Brexit

[ruffrecords]

People of all ages now use Facebook, Whatsapp and other social media. People over the age of 65 share fake news the most by a huge margin.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/9/18174631/old-people-fake-news-facebook-share-nyu-princeton

And other studies have shown that disinformation works very well on many people. It's easy to create false memories, people will confabulate facts, it's shocking how bad the brains of the best among as at assessing reality. So "Common Sense" is not necessarily a good thing.

Sounds like a very shallow 'study' to me. The proportion of over 65 year olds spending a lot of time on the internet is tiny in the UK. 'Sharing' fake news does not mean they believe it. I can easily imagine sharing fake news with a friend and prefacing it - have you seen  this pile of sh-t they are trying on us?

Cheers

Ian

 

[Tubetec]

Just because Borris had to pubicly climb down over selling NHS data directly to the US doesnt mean much .
What we've seen here in Ireland is dozens and dozens of Government run websites that allow third party cookies and trackers to harvest your potentially sensitive data ,  Health websites in particular , these are usually  accompanied with a radio jingle style add rolling out this new  public 'service'  . The latest and greatest was the 'HSE drinks calculator '
The idea being the unsuspecting member of the public goes online, types in the number or drinks they have in a day/week .The Government here have also been trying to hoodwink people into voluenteering for  something called 'myGOVid' they have employed a number of arm twisting techniques to rope the most vulnerable into signing up , one way they did this was offer accces to a new child welfare suplementary scheme via the online portal before christmas ,if you werent signed up via online you had to wait untill January to be able to apply for the service on paper , in other words you out missed the pre Christmas payment. Theres at least a dozen more ocassions this kind of coersive force has been  used to corral  people into  transacting online with government departments over the years ,  Many of the top human rights advocacy/agencies in the country have also flagged this up to be a breach of  human rights . The government did initially attempt to grab biometric data under false pretences too , they got around 4 million faces in the process , since then the reasoning for many people having to submit to it
has been comprehensively pulled apart .

This idea that because your smart enough  to determine whats true or false in terms of fake news or targeted advertising  is all very well Ian,  Id regard myself as well above average levels of scepticism about anything thats pitched at us with a  pretext or hidden agenda,  what really needs to be remembered is not everbody has the inteligence to be able to work these things out .

Its very clear a substantial amount of traditional Labour voters in the North or England changed a voting patern several generations deep to come out for Borris in the end , the likening of it to Margaret Thatchers rise to power is a bit ominous , look how she repayed the working mans vote . 

Pre election promises are easy , really and truely getting Brexit done is still going to take years .

 

[Matador]

It's also interesting to see another place where 'winner take all' converts a 43% vote margin into a 54% representation victory, with 'left' parties like Labour, Greens, SNP and LibDems taking 16.1M votes versus a combined total for Conservatives, UKIP, Brexit and DUP of 14.9M votes.  That's effectively a 4% vote share disadvantage turning into a 110 seat (or 17%) lead.  The age split is even more remarkable, with Tories having an 80% vote share of the over-65 crowd (however full age-splits are still being tabulated as of this writing).

Hopefully someone someday will figure out that land shouldn't get a vote, especially for elections deciding national representation.

 

[DaveP]

It's also interesting to see another place where 'winner take all' converts a 43% vote margin into a 54% representation victory

Don't knock it........it works!

Any country with proportional representation ends up with deadlock or continual elections to try and form a government.

Common examples are Italy and Israel.

How much has your government managed to do in the last 3 years?  Apart from the Russia investigation and Impeachment enquiries?

DaveP

 

[JohnRoberts]

Don't knock it........it works!

Any country with proportional representation ends up with deadlock or continual elections to try and form a government.

Common examples are Italy and Israel.

How much has your government managed to do in the last 3 years?  Apart from the Russia investigation and Impeachment enquiries?

DaveP

Actually a gridlocked (divided) government is not the worst thing since it makes it harder for them to expand government and spend more money.

A lot has actually been accomplished but do not expect to hear about it from negatively biased news outlets, that rather show pictures of leaders at nato gossiping when they think nobody is looking, then observe the nato budget improvements, etc. 

I am pleased with our republic, but it is being tested right now. I expect the silent majority to make some noise in response to share their displeasure come 2020.

Our civil war over a century ago was far more stressful and we survived that, this is just one side having a temper tantrum. It too will pass. Our system is robust.

JR

 

[Banzai]

It's also interesting to see another place where 'winner take all' converts a 43% vote margin into a 54% representation victory, with 'left' parties like Labour, Greens, SNP and LibDems taking 16.1M votes versus a combined total for Conservatives, UKIP, Brexit and DUP of 14.9M votes.  That's effectively a 4% vote share disadvantage turning into a 110 seat (or 17%) lead.  The age split is even more remarkable, with Tories having an 80% vote share of the over-65 crowd (however full age-splits are still being tabulated as of this writing).

53% voted for pro-2nd referendum or pro-remain parties.

People's voice ignored again...

 

[ruffrecords]

Just because Borris had to pubicly climb down over selling NHS data directly to the US doesnt mean much .

This is simply not rue. The document Corbyn referred to had been available in the public domain for some time in an unredacted form. There was nothing new in it, There was no mention of selling the NHS. There was nothing to deny or retract or climb down from

Yet Corbyn he held up an old copy of the redacted version, claimed he now had the unredacted version in which it said the NHS was for sale. Plain, simple lies.

More false news.

Cheers

ian

 

[ruffrecords]

It's also interesting to see another place where 'winner take all' converts a 43% vote margin into a 54% representation victory, with 'left' parties like Labour, Greens, SNP and LibDems taking 16.1M votes versus a combined total for Conservatives, UKIP, Brexit and DUP of 14.9M votes.  That's effectively a 4% vote share disadvantage turning into a 110 seat (or 17%) lead.  The age split is even more remarkable, with Tories having an 80% vote share of the over-65 crowd (however full age-splits are still being tabulated as of this writing).

Hopefully someone someday will figure out that land shouldn't get a vote, especially for elections deciding national representation.

II is nothing to do with a winner takes all. It is plain simple democracy in a multi party system which many people fail to grasp. The decision taken is the one the most people voted for. The decision most people voted for was a Tory government. It really is that simple.

However, I do agree about the age split. People over 65 ar clearly much wiser than the young voters so they should each be given 10 votes to make representation truly proportional.

Cheers

Ian

 

[JohnRoberts]

However, I do agree about the age split. People over 65 ar clearly much wiser than the young voters so they should each be given 10 votes to make representation truly proportional.

Cheers

Ian

That sounds ageist....  :

The good news is that kids are too stoned to get off the couch and vote.... old people vote.  8)

JR

 

[living sounds]

Don't knock it........it works!

Any country with proportional representation ends up with deadlock or continual elections to try and form a government.

Common examples are Italy and Israel.

How much has your government managed to do in the last 3 years?  Apart from the Russia investigation and Impeachment enquiries?

DaveP

Proportional representation works very well here in Germany, as it does in many other countries.

You are simply wrong. The blatant spreading of disinformation and argumenting based on confirmation bias in this thread illustrates points made about people's inability to assess reality correctly.

Here's a list of countries and electrions captioned "Countries with PR do not appear to have more elections":

Everyone is invited to educate themselves some more here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation

 

[Tubetec]

Different peoples perspectives enlighten , not muddy the waters like news media .

 

[alexc]

You are simply wrong. The blatant spreading of disinformation and argumenting based on confirmation bias in this thread illustrates points made about people's inability to assess reality correctly.

wtf ?

 

[alexc]

Which way to the 'reality correction' facility ?  Somewhere in the EU,  I suppose ?

 

[rob_gould]

It won't be. It never was even considered. No UK politician would dare to propose it. There would be riots - I guarantee it.

Cheers

Ian

The NHS will not be 'sold off' overnight and the UK health system will not be converted to an insurance based system in a single step.

What I strongly suspect will happen is that slowly but surely, key services will be allowed to get into a state where they no longer work adequately, and a secondary system will be available to 'save us' from the ailing, failing old system. I suspect that few people will realise it's happening.

Conservative MP Damian Green has ready suggested since the conservative election win that old age care should be paid for via insurance.

Here's a story which strongly suggests that propoganda / misinformation is being spread to soften people up for NHS charging.

https://skwawkbox.org/2019/12/14/day-after-ge-tories-start-mass-social-media-disinformation-campaign-to-soften-us-up-for-nhs-charging/

Good job people are clever enough to see through these dirty tricks though eh! Just the way they did with the 'staged' photo of the kid on the hospital floor.

 

[rob_gould]

However, I do agree about the age split. People over 65 ar clearly much wiser than the young voters so they should each be given 10 votes to make representation truly proportional.

Cheers

Ian

Hmmm.  I'm not sure being older automatically qualifies anyone to be wiser or better informed.

I think the demographic on this forum (generally older, bright, well informed despite being highly opinionated) is the exception, not the rule.

 

[ruffrecords]

Hmmm.  I'm not sure being older automatically qualifies anyone to be wiser or better informed.

I think the demographic on this forum (generally older, bright, well informed despite being highly opinionated) is the exception, not the rule.

Oh, now that is an interesting thought. Number of votes proportional to educational achievement or IQ.

Cheers

Ian

 

[DaveP]

You are simply wrong. The blatant spreading of disinformation and argumenting based on confirmation bias in this thread illustrates points made about people's inability to assess reality correctly.

No, you are wrong, Italy has had 65 governments and the UK 25.
Germany's parties were not so extreme and much more stable at 24
France is a country of extreme views at 66
The same extremes exist in Italy so no government lasts for long.
The hard left and hard right have no place in any government IMHO

You confused elections with governments.
https://www.euronews.com/2016/12/13/why-do-italian-governments-change-so-often

DaveP

 

[DaveP]

Will UK provide light bulb moment for US Democrats?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50785442

Ignore the white working class at your peril, Trump will scoop them up.

DaveP

 

[abbey road d enfer]

The decision most people voted for was a Tory government. It really is that simple.

Is it? I believe they voted against Corbyn. That's the reality of modern politics; people vote against a scarecrow.
Now, why is it that scarecrows are allowed to enter the political arena?

 

[Banzai]

II is nothing to do with a winner takes all. It is plain simple democracy in a multi party system which many people fail to grasp. The decision taken is the one the most people voted for. The decision most people voted for was a Tory government. It really is that simple.

Point is most people *didn't* vote for a Tory government...

Majority of Brits will spend the next 5-years being dictated to by a minority. Not a great look for a democracy.