calling all the api cloners.. group buy ??

[Bauman]

Next week I'll be posting 2520 layouts in 2 versions. One that uses original transistors and have the solder side facing up and another with substitute transistors with solder facing dwon, like Melcor... hope some of you can test them.

Hey don't forget the ultra cheap OEP for input, they sound nice enough!

cheers!
Fabio

 

[rafafredd]

Yes Scenaria I see your point. But those input transformers costs just $45 USD if my mind is not playing tricks with me...

With a bulk order, it will be even cheaper, possibly we can reach $35 and I don´t know if we could get custom (based on the originals) at this price range.

Just my 2 cents.

So, If Cinemag can make a good deal, let´s go for it.

 

[MikoKensington]

Agreed.

 

[tony dB]

do we have other options for the iron?

Lundahl? OEP? what's the cost for OEP?

 

[soundguy]

Hey guys-

Ive tried several different types of input transformers on the 312 circuit and I dont know if this applies to all circuits evenly, but the choice of input iron for the 312 wildly changes the way that circuit sounds. The 2622 is a transformer worth fiending after if you are going after that ballsy api sound. Ive tried other stufff, like jensens and while it still sounded good, it just didnt sound special. If you could a)find a 2622 and then b)find someone to wind a clone, that would so completely rule it would be wrong. The 2622 is this tiny little can, more long than wide, maybe about 1" thick or so.

that said, I might grab a pair of cinemags if you get this going just to compare.

dave

 

[dukasound]

[quote author="mik"][quote author="dukasound"]
where we can find 2520.
Duka[/quote]

Hi Duka, you can use the melcor Peter C. op Amp.
MIK[/quote]
Hi Mik
Where to buy???
Duka

 

[Flatpicker]

[quote author="tony dB"]do we have other options for the iron?

Lundahl? OEP? what's the cost for OEP?[/quote]If I?m not mistaken, Kevin Carter once told me he could give a good discount for quantity Lundahl orders. He?s probably not going to pipe in, though, for fear of spamming the forum. I?ll send him an email and see what he says?

 

[kruz]

check this google cache..
there is some cinemag infos on that deleted topic:

http://www.google.it/search?q=cache...org/posts2467-75.html+cinemag+tech+talk&hl=it

to me, the cinemag still seems the best way to go.. but i'm open minded! :wink:

 

[Plexibreath]

[quote author="kruz"].. but i'm open minded! :wink:[/quote]
Yeah, good to be open minded on this to see how all these trannys perform. So far I have 2 Jensen JT-115K-EPC, 2 Lundahl LL1578XL thru Kevin Carter, and 2 Cinemag CM-75101APC on the way, (all 1:10). For 1:2 output trannys I'm getting 6 from the group order through Tommy, 2 Cinemag CMOQ-2L and 2 Jensens ( don't recall which model). The variety should add to the challenge and fun. And I still don't have enough input trannys as this project is ten preamps in one 4u rack.
Kelley

 

[rafafredd]

I may add that I´ve said it´s not worth to clone the 2622 because I thought that the cinemag being offered was the real thing. I´ve heard that they have the files for the 2622 and what´s being offered is a 2622 clone from cinemag, that originaly built it to API.

If this is not the case, and it´s not a clone at all, then I say yes, lets open a 2622 and find someone to make a clone (sowter?)...

 

[Scenaria]

me personally...

the API pre has a sound to it that is only going to come close if we have the correct trannys... input and output...

For me... I might be waiting a long time but I'd rather wait for some 2622's :\ unless we can locate one and have it reversed..

theres plenty of other pre's out there we can build using cinemag etc.... IMHO lets make the API what it really is

 

[Flatpicker]

[quote author="Scenaria"]...theres plenty of other pre's out there we can build using cinemag etc.... IMHO lets make the API what it really is [/quote]I'm sure there'd be no problem getting a group buy together if we could clone the thing, assuming it's not already made by cinemag. But I'm like rafafredd - I thought cinemag had already duplicated it.

 

[Flatpicker]

[quote author="Flatpicker"]If I?m not mistaken, Kevin Carter once told me he could give a good discount for quantity Lundahl orders. He?s probably not going to pipe in, though, for fear of spamming the forum. I?ll send him an email and see what he says?[/quote]FYI, Kevin said this about Lundahl and APIs:

?The ultimate API input transformer is the LL7903 (1:4), but the LL1538XL (1:5) also sounds excellent. The prices for 10+ pieces for you guys are listed below:

LL1538XL $59
LL7903 $85

The LL1578XL is unnecessarily high gain, in my opinion, but the price is the same as for the LL1538XL.

The LL1538XLs are a bit hard to come by right now. I won't be getting more until late August, but I will get more.?

I ask him what was so special about the LL7903 and he said:

?Bigger and cleaner, with more "balls".?

 

[CJ]

I'm right here, Steve!

You can wire thye 7903 for 1:1, 1:2, 1:4, 1:8 FYI.
:guinness:


Don't forget James. He did the first order but got slammed pretty good for being flakey like me, and never came back.

Maybe someone should drop him a line?

 

[adrianh]

Did anyone read my last post!
I dangled a carrot in your face and no one even read it??????

I think the Altran are in the low $20's

Yes the input trannie is a big deal.
If we do this deal the pcb layout person is going to pull his hair out.
But we can make it very flexable if we limit the options to
a few.

Kevin Carter is on vacation and will return June 18.
So any US Lundahl questions will have to wait till then.

I do need many channels of 312 mic pre's
I plan to use different transformers for sonic flavors.
Mu metel vs. Amphorous Lundahl's

For the output transformer we are stuck with the 4804 reissue.
I do plan on DIY this transformer with nickel Lams!

 

[Plexibreath]

[quote author="Flatpicker"]The LL1578XL is unnecessarily high gain, in my opinion,...[/quote]
If this is true then the Cinemag we are talking about is not right because it's 1:10 like the LL1578XL. I really don't know how this stuff is decided but there doesn't seem to be much of a science to it because each guru swears by something completely different. If someone could explain it all to me I'd be happy as a clam at high tide. Is 1:10 the right ratio? Is 1:8 the right ratio? 1:5? You will get a different answer from from every API 312 expert you ask. Could it be that the 1:10 by Cinemag and Jensen is not as gainy as a 1:10 by Lundahl? That doesn't make sense to me but if this is the case I'd be interested in knowing why.
Kelley

 

[soundguy]

Kelly-

the 2622 is 150/600:10K. those are the facts. Apparently the later input transformers made by reichenbach were 1:10 and DO sound very different. So I guess the RIGHT ratio is BOTH. To further muddy the issue, the new api 3124 uses a jensen 115K transformer so there is ANOTHER sound that is RIGHT. This pretty much explains why I totally dislike the new api gear vs. to old shitty stuff, it has a totally different sound and it isnt some audiophool voodoo, its a transformer stepup ratio. Old api is dark and growly, new api is bright and sparkly.

Of the few different input transformers Ive stuck in front of a 325, I didnt feel that any of them had the same growl that the 2622 does and all the ones I tried are 1:10 or 1:15. What I like most about the 312 is the growl that it has and if you have a lower ratio transformer you can run the gain higher on the opamp. For every guy that likes this Im sure you can find an equally experienced and jaded guy who prefers a 1:10 or 1:15 for just the opposite reason, you can run the opamp at lower gains and there it gets nice and sparkly especially if you use a jensen. Its just a matter of taste.

Im looking forward to trying a lundahl on the input of an api project I have in the works right now.

dave

 

[Flatpicker]

[quote author="Plexibreath"][quote author="Flatpicker"]The LL1578XL is unnecessarily high gain, in my opinion,...[/quote][/quote]That was Kevin's quote, not mine, btw.

 

[CJ]

I believe that the ratio depends also on the opamp, if it's an older Melcor or newer Forrsell for instance.
You would think that a fet input would like a higher ratio than a junction transistor input.
Winston would be a good source on this topic.

 

[Plexibreath]

Soundguy, thanks for clarifying that it's an opinion thing rather than a right or wrong thing, I've been building tube guitar amps for years and it's even more so in that arena, I guess I was thinking with audio it would be more cut and dry. I had heard that the originals were 1:8 but soon went to 1:10, I also heard that the output transformers were originaly set up at 1:3 but later went to 1:2, but that the 1:10 was the way to go for a punchier tone.
So if the original 312s had a signature growl with 1:8 ratio, on the output transformer is it imperative that we use 1:3?

Ok, so where does this leave us for a group order? Are we sure we want to do the 1:10 Cinemag? Or do we go for a group order of the Lundahl 1:5 or was it 1:8? In my case I might want to do a test run with the different ratios first to see which sounds best to me, I already have 2 of the Cinemags, I'll hold off on the purchase if everyone was going that route, but if the ideal Lundahls are the group order I'd like to order 2 to compare to my 1:10 Lundahls. I'm fine with the 1:10 trannys I already have as they will probably sound just fine from a fidelity standpoint and bring up my ribbon mic level some.

Thanks Soundguy and Flatpicker, this gives me more to think about, you guys are great.
Kelley