CBD oil

[JohnRoberts]

My dad who is straight as an arrow frowned when I brought over some CBD creme for my mom. She refused to use it. I assured her there was no way she’d get high and my dad kept rolling his eyes. A year later she told me my dad started rubbing it on his knee where there is some cartilage inflammation and he’s fully sold on it and asked me to score ( ;D) him some more. He said nothing has helped more with the pain.

Do you have a brand recommendation for that effective CBD creme? I am worried about people selling snake oil in place of CBD oil.

The search engines conflate hemp oil with CBD oil, and while CBD oil is hemp oil, hemp oil may or may not contain CBD.

I'd love to stop ingesting NSAIDs so I also need to investigate topical NSAID anti-inflammatory cremes, lots of squirrelly stuff for sale. 

JR

 

[boji]

I don't have much to contribute only to say the local vape store had some CBD on sale but I've yet to try it out.

As an aside, I  recently read a clinical study on the dangers of high-concentration THC found in modern street bud. Growers have become so good at maximizing THC content while simultaneously reducing the CBD content that it can create irreversible brain damage in some chronic users. The paper goes on to say (I'll try to dig it up) that the key to reducing negative effects is to ensure there's some CBD in the dosage.  It's Interesting that CBD interacts with THC in such a way as to block potentially harmful side effects.

 

[boji]

This is a direct reference. At the moment I can't locate a different assessment that included info on how CBD inhibits the psychotic effects of high-concentrate THC.
https://academic.oup.com/hmg/article/26/13/2462/3574683

 

[MountCyanide]

Do you have a brand recommendation for that effective CBD creme? I am worried about people selling snake oil in place of CBD oil.

Hey John - It was Red Dragon Ointment.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Hey John - It was Red Dragon Ointment.

Thanks... no luck finding it near me, but I'll try harder.

[update]  apparently the state has tested CBD products from MS store shelves and found variable quality/contents so my suspicions were justified.  I somehow expect the WWW vendors to be even flakier.  [/update]

[update 2]  found a web source that appears real... edensherbals.... ordered some CBD lotion...  we'll see.  [/update]
JR

 

[MountCyanide]

I just did a search and it appears that Master Growers made the Red Dragon ointment. Their website only has something called Dragon (no Red)  ointment in a very friendly looking commercial package. I assume they went mainstream and removed the mystical look and vibe. Could be the same product- don't know.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I just did a search and it appears that Master Growers made the Red Dragon ointment. Their website only has something called Dragon (no Red)  ointment in a very friendly looking commercial package. I assume they went mainstream and removed the mystical look and vibe. Could be the same product- don't know.

I visited their website already... either out of stock, or refuse to sell to me. They tried to refer me to a dispensary or something like that, but they have none in MS...

edensherbals at least is talking the right talk and sounds legit, but of course on the WWW who knows?

I'll find out soon enough.
===

I also found out that (real) topical NSAIDs require a prescription so if I am still thinking about this when I get my annual check up (4-5 months from now) I'll get a script for some... I'm not going to burn a doctor appointment for just tweaking my long term care.  I have been taking NSAIDs orally for years now, but getting cautious since I have been wrong about how long I may live multiple times.  :

There are lots of OTC remedies for arthritis, that probably contain some fraction of snake oil...

JR

PS: I checked and CBD oil is legal in MS but many confuse and conflate CBD with general hemp oil which could contain anything (but THC).

 

[Seeker]

I recommend cbd, in liquid form it’s worked well for myself and my 75 year old mom.  Not all brands will have the same effect, I can vouch for Elixinol and Koi naturals.  One thing to note is dosing, the recommendations on a bottle will vary wildly.  The average person should take somewhere between 10-35mg for a reasonable effect.  There is also a liposomal variety that is faster acting and better absorbed, so lower doses are required.

It’s not a panacea, but I’ve found it to be very helpful.  It can get expensive though, if you take it everyday you may spend 60-80 bucks a month, but I think it’s worth giving it a shot.

The drug is made from the leaves, the oil is made from the stalks and is non narcotic.

Usually when people talk about drug type cannabis they are referring to the flower, and extracts derived from it.

In the U.S.  the cbd that is Legal pretty much everywhere is derived from hemp (a cousin of the drug type) leaves and stalks, and is certified via gas chromatograph to have no thc.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I recommend cbd, in liquid form it’s worked well for myself and my 75 year old mom.  Not all brands will have the same effect, I can vouch for Elixinol and Koi naturals. 

Thanks for the feedback...

I have both capsules on order, and some CBD lotion, from two different vendors. Both should arrive next week so I can start experimenting.

In my experience dealing with arthritis (in one knee) you have to keep the inflammation in check to prevent the body's defensive response (like depositing calcium in joints, etc).  I ice the bad knee pretty much every night so I could apply lotion at the same time.

I may start by cutting back my naproxen sodium (alieve) from 2 a day to one, and substitute CBD for the other dose.

I would love to get off NSAIDs completely. I had one neighbor collapse from blood loss, but he was careless about dosage and frequency.  I don't use NSAIDs for pain but to control inflammation. 

One thing to note is dosing, the recommendations on a bottle will vary wildly.  The average person should take somewhere between 10-35mg for a reasonable effect.  There is also a liposomal variety that is faster acting and better absorbed, so lower doses are required.

capsules are 15mG but who knows what the purity/strength is?

It’s not a panacea, but I’ve found it to be very helpful.  It can get expensive though, if you take it everyday you may spend 60-80 bucks a month, but I think it’s worth giving it a shot.

yes and I am cheap... I expect (hope) CBD will get cheaper over time since it can come from hemp, or as a secondary side product of extracting THC from cannabis.

Usually when people talk about drug type cannabis they are referring to the flower, and extracts derived from it.

Yup flower tops, the best part, often full of seeds back in the day.

I recall getting some really crappy pot in the 70s while stationed at Ft Riley KS. The government planted a lot of hemp around there to make rope during WWII.  : While on maneuvers in Germany (1970) the locals were so hungry for pot, they would trade about even for hasheesh (that was the real deal).

In the U.S.  the cbd that is Legal pretty much everywhere is derived from hemp (a cousin of the drug type) leaves and stalks, and is certified via gas chromatograph to have no thc.

Yup, but lots of shady merchants trying to push hemp oil (?) as CBD... These are still the early "wild west" days for this so lots of funny business out there.  There are lots of other perhaps beneficial fractions besides THC, and CBD, in the cannabis plant but my experiment for now is with CBD.

JR

 

[Gilbert]

Not super cheap but this stuff works great for me.

http://www.goodbodyproducts.com/green-power-salve-with-arnica-comfrey-and-cbd/

 

[JohnRoberts]

Not super cheap but this stuff works great for me.

http://www.goodbodyproducts.com/green-power-salve-with-arnica-comfrey-and-cbd/

Thanks.. for now I'm trying to keep the number of variables modest.

Admittedly the CBD lotion I bought has plenty of extras.

JR

 

[sodderboy]

I bought CBD for use after surgery.  I did not feel any results from the recommended and double dosages, but I only tried one un-controlled brand.  My wife said a few drops helped her sleep deeper, and the effect was residual so she does not take it more than once a week.  I think it should be tried as an alternative to prescription or OTC pharma products.  I found Sinucare Extra Strength and do not take any OTC antihistamines or decongestants any more.

For inflammation and muscle pain we use 90% topical arnica for horses.  Many people at the gym recommended and swear by it.  I like the p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-product.  There are some who follow with DMSO to help the arnica penetrate but I have not needed the turbo-boost.
Mike

 

[JohnRoberts]

Thanks, I am trying to be reasonably scientific about this. I have both 15mG capsules and a CBD infused lotion. I use the lotion topically (on my arthritic knee) while I am icing the same knee, after my 5 mile bike ride, or yard work.

I was taking 2x daily Naproxen Sodium (Alieve), I have started substituting the cbd oil for one of those two doses of NSAID. The concern about NSAIDs orally is that they can attack the stomach wall linings. I coordinate my remaining 1 dose a day to be coincident with my major evening meal (so with food that should reduce gastric stress).

I will monitor my knee for inflammatory response... the last time I tried to taper down from 2x to 1x naproxen didn't work and I had to return to the 2x daily dosage. I hope this time the CBD can pick up some of the slack.

I am not overly optimistic, but encouraged enough to try this experiment. I have enough CBD for a few weeks trial (assuming there is actually CBD in there).

JR

PS: I may try some topical NSAIDs (applied externally) if this fails, but no hurry, that requires a doctor's prescription and my next scheduled check up is still a few months off.

 

[JohnRoberts]

After less than three days of substituting CBD oil (internal and external) for 1 of my 2x NSAID doses, I could feel my bad knee turning arthritic again. I may continue using the CBD in addition but the experiment to reduce chronic 2x daily NSAID consumption has failed.  :'(

Next experiment is to get a prescription for topical NSAIDs (Voltaren?), which will keep most of it out of my bloodstream. Next scheduled doctor appointment is still months away.

JR

 

[rock soderstrom]

Do not give up too soon!  Continue to experiment, increase the dose or change the manufacturer.

And again, you can test rosehip powder, I do not know how, but it works for me. Its quite cheap and easy to buy in good quality. I take a small spoon of that powder with orange juice or yogurt every day an I had less pain after a few days!

Here are some information:

"Rosehip is part of the fruit that grows on the blossom of a wild rose called Rosa canina. This rose grows mostly in Europe and parts of Africa and Asia.

Rosehips are packed full of vitamin C and other antioxidants, vitamins, and minerals. They also contain a substance that fights inflammation.

Why do people take rosehip?

Rosehip powder might help lessen pain due to osteoarthritis. The supplement has been tested in many people with osteoarthritis of the hip, knee, hand, shoulder, neck, and other areas.

A review of studies shows that people who took the supplement had less pain after three months compared to a placebo (dummy pill).

Some doctors think rosehip might be an alternative to nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs). Unlike NSAIDs, rosehip does not appear to thin the blood or cause stomach irritation and possible ulcers. More thorough research is needed, though.

A few studies show that rosehip may also help people with long-term back pain and rheumatoid arthritis (RA). However, studies on RA are conflicting. A small study shows that rosehip supplements do not affect RA pain."

from https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/rosehip-uses-and-risks

 

[JohnRoberts]

Do not give up too soon!  Continue to experiment, increase the dose or change the manufacturer.

I will continue to use the CBD oil I have already purchased, but I don't want to risk letting my knee get away from me. Maintaining the low, stable, inflammation is easier than, knocking it down the first time when severely inflamed, so I need to get it back quiet again.   

And again, you can test rosehip powder, I do not know how, but it works for me. Its quite cheap and easy to buy in good quality. I take a small spoon of that powder with orange juice or yogurt every day an I had less pain after a few days!

Thanks, I have heard about rosehip powder before, there are probably hundreds of folk remedies for OA, because millions suffer from OA.

One folk remedy I already use that seems to make a difference is golden raisins soaked in gin... while not enough to handle it alone.  Of course there may be some placebo effect and such anecdotal evidence can be subjective.  My knee's bad reaction to reducing naproxen dosage seems pretty objective.

JR

Here are some information:

"Rosehip is part of the fruit that grows on the blossom of a wild rose called Rosa canina. This rose grows mostly in Europe and parts of Africa and Asia.

Rosehips are packed full of vitamin C and other antioxidants, vitamins, and minerals. They also contain a substance that fights inflammation.

Why do people take rosehip?

Rosehip powder might help lessen pain due to osteoarthritis. The supplement has been tested in many people with osteoarthritis of the hip, knee, hand, shoulder, neck, and other areas.

A review of studies shows that people who took the supplement had less pain after three months compared to a placebo (dummy pill).

Some doctors think rosehip might be an alternative to nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs). Unlike NSAIDs, rosehip does not appear to thin the blood or cause stomach irritation and possible ulcers. More thorough research is needed, though.

A few studies show that rosehip may also help people with long-term back pain and rheumatoid arthritis (RA). However, studies on RA are conflicting. A small study shows that rosehip supplements do not affect RA pain."

from https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/rosehip-uses-and-risks

 

[rock soderstrom]

I hope you will find the right medicine for your knees. Right is what suits you best.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I hope you will find the right medicine for your knees. Right is what suits you best.

It is well under control using naproxen, but there is risk from chronic consumption of NSAIDs.

I expect that switching to topical NSAIDs will reduce the exposure some 90%+

I never planned to live this long, but JIC I live even longer I need to be prudent .

The medical community seems to be reactive, like use the NSAIDs until you get a bad reaction from it.  I had one neighbor collapse with a bleeding ulcer (from NSAID use), and I recently learned that my mother died from her intestinal walls failing and bleeding out internally.

Since my OA is only in one knee, it seems treating it topically makes sense.

JR 

 

[pvision]

I know. But farmers are not allowed to grow even the rope-kind low THC variants here. This country has an extremist Kafkaesque bureaucratic view on a rather broad topic that I am glad the rest of the western world is discussing.

The weird thing about the UK is that the Government is in full denial mode about marijuana, hopelessly conflicted about allowing legal marijuana-based medicines to be prescribed but, at the same time, the UK is a big grower of medical marijuana

Nick Froome

 

[living sounds]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/may/05/cbd-a-marijuana-miracle-or-another-health-fad-cannabidiol-anxiety-epilepsy