Compact desktop line mixer?

[OneRoomStudio]

All connections should be on DB25...this isn't 1983. All modern patchbays and most 8 channel preamps, 500 racks and everything else is on DB25. There should be very few dedicated individual in/outs. Cheaper, easier manufacturing , easier hookups.

DB25 was invented in 1952….so I don’t know what the year has to do with it. Personally, my interface and patchbay are ¼” TRS.

 

[Brian Roth]

I might be a strange example because I have a Dangerous Source that acts as both the D/A for my main outs and my monitor controller. The rest of my hardware goes through my other AD/DA converter (a MOTU).

You bring up a good point though. I guess I had been thinking that I would monitor off the board while I was mixing, then print the mix to the DAW, and if I wanted to listen back afterwards, I could just patch back into the stereo return and listen through there. I have meters to know how hot I’m hitting the DAW, and digital doesn’t alter the sound enough that I feel like I need to monitor the returns while printing. I know that’s not how things were done in the tape days though.

OK, your workflow is similar to some folks I know who don't have a desk of any type.....using an external monitor controller. I only have a vague idea about one of my friend's setup, but there is a UA monitor controller of some sort along with other UA digital interface gear. No analog desk; a 500 rack that somehow ties into A/D and D/A convertors.

But, with this project, the mixer IS the monitor controller. CR level, solo listening, speaker select, etc.

Bri

 

[Brian Roth]

All connections should be on DB25...this isn't 1983. All modern patchbays and most 8 channel preamps, 500 racks and everything else is on DB25. There should be very few dedicated individual in/outs. Cheaper, easier manufacturing , easier hookups.

I had thought about that. The x-desk used multiple DB-25's. OTOH, the LILO used XLR and TRS jacks. But, it was a much larger mixer.

DB-25's pretty much eliminate the possibility of a DIYer "easily" doing their own metal work. Chassis punches are incredibly expensive, and drilling a bunch of overlapping holes and then spending a ton of time with a small file is very tedious and the results look crappy. I can easily make a panel with a drill press and some Greenlee punches, but draw the line at manually "chopping" odd-shaped openings. Shrug....

Bri

 

[Brian Roth]

@OneRoomStudio I have an UNfeature Creep idea. <g>

Instead of the multi-segment meter on each channel and the peak indicator, instead use a "three-step" indicator for Signal Present (-20?), Normal (0) and Clip (+20?). Either a single tri-color LED or three individual LEDs. There is a way to add a pre-fade sample into the readout circuit to catch clipping of the input buffer as well.

Perhaps a single multi-segment meter could "watch" the Solo audio bus?

As best as I can see, the x-desk and LILO have NO metering or clip indicators on each input.

Deleting the meters on each channel greatly simplifies the circuity and reduces required panel space.

Bri

 

[MidnightArrakis]

I can't seem to access the file this way.

[I can't seem to access the file this way] -- Since this forum is essentially "an engineering forum", I would think that the creators and/or moderators of this forum would allow it to be more accommodating with it being able to attach the many types of CAD-design files that all of us commonly use. This would then allow all of us to freely exchange our various types of CAD-design engineering files amongst one another without the need to "trick" the system into believing we are attaching an allowable file-type, when in reality, we're not!!! Is there a reason why CAD-design files are not allowed to be attached to messages here, but MP3's and WAV files are? HMMMmmmmmmmmm......

In any case, recently when I uploaded an -- STL -- file for RuffRecords to review which was renamed in the manner he has detailed, he afterwards made no comment about having any problems downloading and importing my file to him, other than that he was able to import my file and use it. However, and perhaps similar to your own experience upon accessing RuffRecords' attached FPD file, I did initially receive a "Black Message" as you have indicated. But, it's an easy fix to do.

Just place your cursor over the attached file and do a "Right-Click". You'll get a pop-up menu. Scroll down, select "Save Link As" and name the file to whatever you want.....>> BUT!!! <<.....just make certain that your file has an -- .fpd -- filename extension and then click on "Save". You should be "GOOD-TO-GO"!!! It worked for me!!!

GOOD LUCK!!!

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[ruffrecords]

[I have just designed a rough front panel] -- I have two minor suggestions for your front-panel design:

1. Add another "fixing" slot above Channel-8 (primarily for a more symmetrical look, not necessarily for mechanical reasons).

This is a "feature" of front panel designer. I use the "add system holes" option to place the fixing slots. Unfortunately this only works properly for panels up to 84HP wide (the maximum that fits into a 19 inch rack). This panel is 104HP wide so when you ask it to add system holes it throws up an error and offers to resize the panel! The panel is the right size so I ignore it and the result is what you see in the file I posted. I didn't bother to move them because all I was really interested in was the price.

In fact I found it very hard to create a 104HP panel in front panel designer. The up/down arrows on the width selection box will only go up to 100. I had to type in 104 to get it to work. However, I have not checked the width of the panel so I am not sure it it actually came out as 104HP.

Cheers

Ian

 

[MidnightArrakis]

This is a "feature" of front panel designer. I use the "add system holes" option to place the fixing slots. Unfortunately this only works properly for panels up to 84HP wide (the maximum that fits into a 19 inch rack). This panel is 104HP wide so when you ask it to add system holes it throws up an error and offers to resize the panel! The panel is the right size so I ignore it and the result is what you see in the file I posted. I didn't bother to move them because all I was really interested in was the price.

In fact I found it very hard to create a 104HP panel in front panel designer. The up/down arrows on the width selection box will only go up to 100. I had to type in 104 to get it to work. However, I have not checked the width of the panel so I am not sure it it actually came out as 104HP.

Cheers

Ian

[I found it very hard to create a 104HP panel in front panel designer] -- Well.....Alrighty NOW!!!.....I think there could be an easy "work-around" to resolve this little issue of yours!!!

Provide me with a -- DETAILED -- mechanical sketch of your desired front-panel. Include -- ALL -- holes, slots, cutouts, etc. with EVERYTHING clearly dimensioned!!! I could then create your front-panel in SolidWorks to be however and whatever you want it to be and then I could do a "Save As" and save the design as an -- STP -- file. From there, I could import the -- STP -- file into Front Panel Designer and turn right around and do another "Save As" as an -- FPD -- file.

Once I have all of that created and saved, then I could send you a ZIP-file containing both the FPD and STP files so you can then add-in all of your graphics and text. I just ask that you include the -- +11 -- for a chuckle!!! (And, I'm assuming that you are aware of the "This Is Spinal Tap" movie, which is where this came from).

How does this sound to you?



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[studio1117]

DB25 was invented in 1952….so I don’t know what the year has to do with it. Personally, my interface and patchbay are ¼” TRS.

There simply isn't enough real estate to allow all of the inputs and outputs this console will require to be useful to anybody. If it was such a great idea to have a ton of XLR and 1/4" inputs on the back....why hasn't anybody else done it on these modern small mixers? Why didn't the X-desk ? You can buy some DB25 to 1/4" to fit your studio and the rest of the world can use DB25 like every other modern piece of audio gear. Next thing you're going to be arguing to bring back cannon balls and horse drawn buggies.

 

[studio1117]

DB25 was invented in 1952….so I don’t know what the year has to do with it. Personally, my interface and patchbay are ¼” TRS.

Oh and BTW the DB25 audio standard (Aes59) wasn't even adopted until 2012! https://www.soundonsound.com/glossary/aes59

 

[kags]

I agree that DSubs are the way to go, but I also would love at least 1 or 2 pairs of TRS inputs for convenience. Sometimes you have a floater piece of gear or a visitor wants to plug their device in, so some TRS connections that override the Dsub on, say, channels 1-4 would be welcome.

I understand the expense of dsub cables turns some people off, but they are ubiquitous these days. I also agree it’s difficult to hand cut a db25 hole in a chassis. I trace the cutout from a middle Atlantic panel and use a Dremel to cut and smooth and it works fine and takes about 10 minutes.

Another idea that I employ is to simply cut a rectangle and mount a Middle Atlantic db25 plate to the chassis of a device with screw or rivets . This creates a nice finished look. This is what it looks like.

 

[MidnightArrakis]

There simply isn't enough real estate to allow all of the inputs and outputs this console will require to be useful to anybody. If it was such a great idea to have a ton of XLR and 1/4" inputs on the back....why hasn't anybody else done it on these modern small mixers? Why didn't the X-desk ? You can buy some DB25 to 1/4" to fit your studio and the rest of the world can use DB25 like every other modern piece of audio gear. Next thing you're going to be arguing to bring back cannon balls and horse drawn buggies.

[Next thing you're going to be arguing to bring back cannon balls and horse drawn buggies] -- Hey!!!.....WHAT A GREAT IDEA!!! Less overall pollution, even if it does take you longer to get where you're going!!! YA-A-A-A-AY!!!.....

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