COVID-19

[Script]

+1

 

[Ricardus]

All of China reported 13 (thirteen !) new cases yesterday -- true? Fake? You decide.

They are reporting no new cases today.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Can I make an ask of the community?  Please, consider carefully the information you are putting into the world right now.

I'm seeing really poor quality information coming from what I previously considered to be smart people, here and elsewhere.  Go to trusted primary sources, and share only what you know to be true.  The majority of the news right now is poor quality.

I very rarely share personal info online but as I posted recently I am the father of two girls adopted from China with one more on the way once this chaos settles.  Friends in the adoption community are already experiencing elevated levels of racism, again I ask you all to be careful of the language used.  When our President refers to this as "The Chinese Virus" it fuels bad behavior and wrong headed ideas.

I'm sorry if you have had bad experiences, but calling the virus "Chinese" is objective truth not a racist dog whistle.  I actually stopped watching the press conference today when about the second question was asking POTUS why he called it "Chinese".

Perhaps not obvious but international relations are 3D chess, not checkers. China has been pushing misinformation that the US caused the virus. They learned that from the Russian playbook that blamed us for Aids back when. 

It is standard practice to name such diseases based on their origination, China is pretending that they are innocent and did not tragically mishandle this, when it could have been nipped in the bud, saving many lives. 

I was disappointed to see US media carrying water for the Chinese, supporting the disinformation campaign.

A friend of my wife was in line with her adopted Chinese daughter this week when a man behind them pointed to the child and loudly proclaimed "That's where it comes from".

f'n idiots

Be a source of good info for your community, here and elsewhere.

Don't expect the best and latest info here, but several here seem pretty well informed, others here are spewing nonsense so caveat lector, thats the WWW for ya.

JR

PS; The last time I flew back from China (coach) there had to be 20 crying babies in the cabin (no doubt recent adoptions), and they cry as loud as any other babies I ever heard.  Good luck and thank you and your wife's friend for giving some children a better life. 

 

[dogears]

Private market moves quickly.

https://time.com/5805953/home-covid-19-test-everlywell/

 

[dogears]

Also good news

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Hydroxychloroquine_final_DOI_IJAA.pdf

 

[gyraf]

Be a source of good info for your community, here and elsewhere.

+1

 

[Script]

Individual risk assessment is paramount. I did this when Japan had the very first few cases outside that cruise ship and revised it a couple of times since then.

- Assessment on a personal level
- Assessment regarding the people we love and those we only know
- Assessment regarding all other people, i.e. all those we do not know.

Very soon I started avoiding crowds as much as possible, keep my arm-length of distance when paying in stores, activating hotel elevator knobs with keys or elbows, open swing doors with my feet, start dab-coughing,, make way for other people on streets (especially for elderly) but not forgetting to greet or just nod as a courtesy), and most important of all stop touching my face the statistical 23 times per hour when outside. The last one is the toughest, but it's possible... ...

Fear is nothing to be ashamed of. It just tells us to be vigilant. Panic, however, is the worst of all advisors.

It's important to step back once in a while and look at one's own situation -- trying to keep feelings out of it as much as possible:
'What can I do, what should I not do.'

And most important of all, I think, is never to allow losing one's sense of humour... ...

 

[ruffrecords]

Individual risk assessment is paramount. I did this when Japan had the very first few cases outside that cruise ship and revised it a couple of times since then.

- Assessment on a personal level
- Assessment regarding the people we love and those we only know
- Assessment regarding all other people, i.e. all those we do not know.

Very soon I started avoiding crowds as much as possible, keep my arm-length of distance when paying in stores, activating hotel elevator knobs with keys or elbows, open swing doors with my feet, start dab-coughing,, make way for other people on streets (especially for elderly) but not forgetting to greet or just nod as a courtesy), and most important of all stop touching my face the statistical 23 times per hour when outside. The last one is the toughest, but it's possible... ...

Fear is nothing to be ashamed of. It just tells us to be vigilant. Panic, however, is the worst of all advisors.

It's important to step back once in a while and look at one's own situation -- trying to keep feelings out of it as much as possible:
'What can I do, what should I not do.'

And most important of all, I think, is never to allow losing one's sense of humour... ...

For once Script I agree with you 100%. Very sensible attitude.

Cheers

ian

 

[Script]

Thanks Ian. I have never felt we really disagreed that much. Just keep safe!
/Stan

 

[JohnRoberts]

That is precisely what I'm propsing bro. I would be in Group A. You would be in Group B. Group A and Group B would avoid each other diligently and definitely not breath on each other. But Group A can go about their business and spend money and go to the movies and bars. Group B would not as they would be living in isolation until we build up herd immunity and make a vaccine.

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that we risk lives for the sake of the economy. There is some threshold of age / health at which 99.9% of people will, after some mild condition, will be 100% fine (Group A). By letting those people get infected, they are removed from the population as carriers. That "herd immunity" reduces the risk to the vulnerable category (Group B). As long as Group A remains below said threshold, there should be little additional strain on the healthcare system and the net effect is lower mortality.

A recent report says 20% of people hospitalized with covid19 are 20-44 YO... The report did not break out other pre-existing conditions, and perhaps vaping is another factor as it has already sent some into the hospital from questionable doses of who knows what in vape pens (my personal speculation).

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-19/coronavirus-in-young-people-is-it-dangerous-data-show-it-can-be

Don't breath on me bro...

JR

 

[hodad]

I'm sorry if you have had bad experiences, but calling the virus "Chinese" is objective truth not a racist dog whistle.

Why can't it be both?  Don't try to justify Trump's racist garbage.  Seriously.  It's beneath you.

EDIT:  I just read that there's a right wing conspiracy theory that this virus is a Chinese bioweapon.  If you don't think that Trump is trying to fuel that racist nonsense with his "Chinese virus" BS, then you are an idiot. 

 

[living sounds]

Yes. I have it on good authority that intensive care units in a major German city are already quite full and that there is a surprisingly large percentage of younger and even young people.

There's also a significant probability that surviving the disease will leave your lungs impaired for a longer time or even permanently.

So stay at home and keep up all the precautions, even if you are young and healthy.

 

[Bo Deadly]

A recent report says 20% of people hospitalized with covid19 are 20-44 YO...

Look at how they describe some of the data. They say:

  "Chinese doctors found that about 11% of cases in infants were judged to be severe or critical, as were 7% of those in toddlers and preschoolers"

So they use a percentage of a subset that is not even defined. How many of the 2,000 were infants or toddlers and preschoolers? Is it 10 or 100 or what? And how can you NOT declare an infant to be severe if they are diagnosed with a new super-scary virus?

The source of the US data is behind a paywall. It says 4% required ICU treatment and "few died". The only indication in that article that a person in the 2500 US cases under 44 actually died is a tiny sliver of a bar graph which appears to be maybe 1-2.

Also it possible that the enormous leap from near 0 below 20 and 705 / 2500 in the 20-44 group is because when you're 20-44 you drink, smoke, party like an idiot and ignore symptoms?

Naturally there is going to be a little hype about young people getting COVID-19. When a person under 40 dies from it, it will make the news. No doubt.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Why can't it be both?  Don't try to justify Trump's racist garbage.  Seriously.  It's beneath you.

Apparently not....BUT I am not justifying racism, I recognize the disinformation strategy that China is running and your team is all too willing to support.  If President Trump were to bend to your PC demands and not call Covid-19 "Chinese" (which it clearly is), the Chinese government would triumphantly claim that they were correct and even President Trump acknowledges that with his altered verbiage. 

EDIT:  I just read that there's a right wing conspiracy theory that this virus is a Chinese bioweapon.  If you don't think that Trump is trying to fuel that racist nonsense with his "Chinese virus" BS, then you are an idiot.

The conspiracy mill has been working overtime but they do not deserve any recognition here.

Saying I must be an idiot is not going to win points with me... Please try to soften your language and attitude, we are all friends here whether you believe that or not.

Perhaps reinspect your filters (world view). I thought the left would stop calling us racist after President Obama retired, but apparently not.  I guess old thought patterns are heard to break (they are according to the psychology texts I've read).

I am surely repeating myself by now.

JR

 

[volker]

So we should rename the Spanish Flu to American Flu then, at least we would want to be accurate. 

I simply don't get the point of calling it "chinese". SARS-CoV2 is the virus, COVID-19 is the resulting illness. It serves no purpose to stick a nationality on it.

 

[pucho812]

So we should rename the Spanish Flu to American Flu then, at least we would want to be accurate. 

I simply don't get the point of calling it "chinese". SARS-CoV2 is the virus, COVID-19 is the resulting illness. It serves no purpose to stick a nationality on it.

While it's unlikely that the “Spanish Flu” originated in Spain, scientists are still unsure of its source. France, China and Britain have all been suggested as the potential birthplace of the virus, as has the United States, where the first known case was reported at a military base in Kansas on March 11, 1918.

so maybe we should? it doesn't bother me that it's called the Chinese flu, that is where the first known case came out of. perhaps  they should call it the kung flu? 

 

[dmp]

CoV2 is the virus, COVID-19 is the resulting illness. It serves no purpose to stick a nationality on it.

It seems there is a political intent - I'm just not sure what it is. What value does Trump and his supporters see in picking this fight? Because it is picking a fight with China AND Trump's political opponents. He just had a new conference where he raised the rhetoric even more.

Trump has a track record of exaggerating and sowing discord, but how will that help now? Working with Dems in the house is the only way to get stimulus. Without stimulus the economy is going down hard.  The US is dependent on China for the supply chain including health supplies. Do we really want China to not work with us?  If another country develops a vaccine, why would they share it with the US after this kind behavior? (including the news from Germany a few days ago)

Whether you see the name as offensive or not, what is the value of making a fight out of it?

 

[dmp]

China is blaming the virus on the USA...
I guess that is what's going on

 

[JohnRoberts]

China is blaming the virus on the USA...
I guess that is what's going on

Yes, finally.....

JR

 

[hodad]

The conspiracy mill has been working overtime but they do not deserve any recognition here.

Saying I must be an idiot is not going to win points with me... Please try to soften your language and attitude, we are all friends here whether you believe that or not.

JR

The conspiracy mill may not deserve recognition, but bigots and racists are a large portion of Trump's base.  Trump knows full well that he's playing to them (whether he agrees or not, he has to earn their votes somehow).  You may not want to acknowledge this, but that's not changing anything. 

Trump knows he's potentially inciting conspiracy-laced racism (it's not that hard to figure out) and yet he personally is changing his briefings to say "Chinese virus." 

And let me assure you, if my real-life friends were defending this garbage, my language would be much harsher than what I use here. 

And, speaking generally, if you say awful things in a civil tone, it doesn't make them any less despicable.  While civility is certainly fine, it doesn't excuse or paper over vile pronouncements.