crazydoc
Well-known member
How about, "Buy a T-shirt and join my huge group of ignorant assholes comitting suicide"?
covid politics
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agains with the name calling. I kind of like Gov DeSantis and Gov Abbot, but maybe I'm just an ignorant asshole? Dr Fauci has become a verb and not in a good way. He is old and may get thrown under the bus before 2022 campaign. (But I still can not predict the future).
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I don't know the veracity of this statistic but I shared it anyhow.... It has been reported that 90% of covid hospitalizations and 99% of covid deaths these days are from unvaccinated people. That math should be easy for even the simplest minds to understand.
Or perhaps this is just natural selection at work.
Is anybody here resisting getting vaccinated (other than following doctors specific advice)?
JR
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I don't know the veracity of this statistic but I shared it anyhow.... It has been reported that 90% of covid hospitalizations and 99% of covid deaths these days are from unvaccinated people. That math should be easy for even the simplest minds to understand.
Or perhaps this is just natural selection at work.
Is anybody here resisting getting vaccinated (other than following doctors specific advice)?
JR
crazydoc
Well-known member
If so, there are apparently a large number of the mindless out there.
Fauci is a moral physician trying to do the best he can, in uncharted waters, for the greatest number of people. The governors are amoral politicians who will try to do most anything to garner votes for election to the same or greater offices. They may be starting to realize their covid stances are out of step with many voters.
Ignorance is rampant, but that is not exactly a new condition. Imagine how much harder we would have to work to get by if the average intelligence was higher.
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Opinions vary... Fauci appears to be as much of a politician as the rest of the DC swamp dwellers.
State governors are a counterbalance to federal power and/or incompetence.
For example, Gov Abbot has started to enforce his state's southern border, which also happens to be our southern border. I'm pretty sure CA will not tighten up their southern border but a few other states following Abbot's example could make a difference. After TX tightens up their border I expect the migrant traffic to shift to AZ and further west (an easy prediction).
JR
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Opinions vary... Fauci appears to be as much of a politician as the rest of the DC swamp dwellers.
State governors are a counterbalance to federal power and/or incompetence.
For example, Gov Abbot has started to enforce his state's southern border, which also happens to be our southern border. I'm pretty sure CA will not tighten up their southern border but a few other states following Abbot's example could make a difference. After TX tightens up their border I expect the migrant traffic to shift to AZ and further west (an easy prediction).
JR
Inoculation in Japan is not as advanced by far as in the US or some European countries and delta is taking over quickly.
Right now, incidences in Tokyo are rising sharply ( between 150 to 160 per cent in day-to day comparison to same weekday of previous week).
Those ending up in hospital here are in their 40s and 50s (some in 30s) and the majority is people not vaccinated yet. Shot offers for 50s and 40s only just started, followed very quickly by offers to anyone else down to age 20.
Noteworthy here is that (1) there are fewer but still incidences among those between 60 and 70 (cases probably mostly 60 to 64) and, most importantly (2), few officially recorded cases among people older than 65 -- this must be cos inoculation among those age groups is highly advanced over here.
In short: better not gamble on this one. Nobody could possibly want to be the Olympic athlete in their early 20s who got away with a bit of Covid fever last December -- only to discover that their lung capacity keeps being reduced by 40 percent even after six months after infection. Not sure which team this was (Germany or Denmark ?) .
Right now, incidences in Tokyo are rising sharply ( between 150 to 160 per cent in day-to day comparison to same weekday of previous week).
Those ending up in hospital here are in their 40s and 50s (some in 30s) and the majority is people not vaccinated yet. Shot offers for 50s and 40s only just started, followed very quickly by offers to anyone else down to age 20.
Noteworthy here is that (1) there are fewer but still incidences among those between 60 and 70 (cases probably mostly 60 to 64) and, most importantly (2), few officially recorded cases among people older than 65 -- this must be cos inoculation among those age groups is highly advanced over here.
In short: better not gamble on this one. Nobody could possibly want to be the Olympic athlete in their early 20s who got away with a bit of Covid fever last December -- only to discover that their lung capacity keeps being reduced by 40 percent even after six months after infection. Not sure which team this was (Germany or Denmark ?) .
I dont often take serious umbrage to much that goes on in here, I believe people are entitled to their views, put forward in a reasonable manner , but theres been a few recent comments I've strongly objected to .
No need to re-quote or name names , you know who you(they) are .
This idea just because a person may disagree with ,for whatever reason, vaccination, deserves burning in hell or a fate worse than death or even to be subjected to vaccination against their will for the 'good' of everybody you claim to speak on behalf of sound like Nazism of the highest magnitude. People with a so called serious level of 'education' and letters after their name yet cry fault with Trumpites with a much lesser standard of (mis)education than themselves stinks to high heaven . 'Pot calls kettle black' syndrome.
There are a few here , like myself with 'outlier' views , which I may or may not agree with on a given subject , yet dont try and force feed or foist their views on anyone , simply express themselves , I salut you , you know who you are, in fact maybe you know yourselves a lot better than those who suppose to know 'best' for everyone.
Site admin/moderation is a thankless job at the best of times , an unenviable high wire balancing act , almost like what we call a vocation in old catholic Ireland .
Gaining command over language has allowed me express myself in words without having to resort more dastardly tactics , I still aint no saint and you really wouldnt like me when I'm angry , I'd tear your soul asunder .
Smartest people you'll ever meet in life are the ones who realise they dont know it all
No need to re-quote or name names , you know who you(they) are .
This idea just because a person may disagree with ,for whatever reason, vaccination, deserves burning in hell or a fate worse than death or even to be subjected to vaccination against their will for the 'good' of everybody you claim to speak on behalf of sound like Nazism of the highest magnitude. People with a so called serious level of 'education' and letters after their name yet cry fault with Trumpites with a much lesser standard of (mis)education than themselves stinks to high heaven . 'Pot calls kettle black' syndrome.
There are a few here , like myself with 'outlier' views , which I may or may not agree with on a given subject , yet dont try and force feed or foist their views on anyone , simply express themselves , I salut you , you know who you are, in fact maybe you know yourselves a lot better than those who suppose to know 'best' for everyone.
Site admin/moderation is a thankless job at the best of times , an unenviable high wire balancing act , almost like what we call a vocation in old catholic Ireland .
Gaining command over language has allowed me express myself in words without having to resort more dastardly tactics , I still aint no saint and you really wouldnt like me when I'm angry , I'd tear your soul asunder .
Smartest people you'll ever meet in life are the ones who realise they dont know it all
crazydoc
Well-known member
As one of the "seriously educated" Nazis you are denigrating here, I have to agree. People who think they "know it all" and refuse to be part of a solution are a huge part of the problems facing society today.
iturnknobs
Well-known member
I have been somewhat accepting of the 2 party system in our country, even with it's faults. Nazi supporters, white supremacists, racists, capitalists, tribalists, homo-haters, gun fanatics, religious fundamentalists and CAPITOL RIOTERS are primarily associated with "our" Republican party. They(not all) put signs and flags in their yards, approved by, with profits going to their candidate of choice. Some of the slogans are "F*ck Your Feelings" and "No More Bullsh*t". I also see "F*ck Biden" signs and flags regularly. The Republican party and its constituents (not all) are now directly spreading anti-vaccine information and politically splitting our society down the middle in the interest of "winning at all costs" and ”owning the libs”. Ron DeSantis' "Don't Fauci My Florida" is an absolutely disgusting campaign policy on merchandise approved by himself...and then people outwardly admit they like the guy. Perfect example of rooting for the bad guy...
https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/the-red-blue-divide-in-covid-19-vaccination-rates-is-growing/If you take all these accurate examples of said party, and put together a Venn diagram, the results are ugly and damning. This is who "you"(republicans) stand with.
Seeing as you are from Ireland, here's a factoid attached to primarily Republicans(because of the health care policies they support/oppose) that you might not know and/haven't heard. 1 in 5 Americans, over all, are in financial collections for medical services. Many others sources can be found on this topic.
https://truthout.org/articles/nearly-one-in-five-americans-are-in-collections-for-medical-debt/?ampRepublicans overwhelmingly support the idea that pre-existing conditions and comorbidities, not covid, is what kills people. That means the patient is often responsible for the medical costs when not currently testing positive for covid. I would assume you can't comprehend losing your assets due to medical costs, given where you live. GroupDIY is a forum where people help people. The Venn diagram net result of Republicanism is definitely showing people not being helpful. I have lost most of my income, my health insurance and my general way of life over the past 18 months. This whole thing could have been handled better It still could be. Witty retorts, especially the ones skirting around conspiracy theories, are unhelpful. I can't, in good faith, watch word smiths try and make this all look OK and be "cute" while doing it.
This article appeared a few days ago in a local online news outlet ,
https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/opinion-mandatory-covid-19-vaccination-5499633-Jul2021/
In the comments section Professor Cox took quite a bashing over his views , not specifically from the vax hesitant ,but even from people that had decided to take the shots but still didnt believe in the use of coercive force to try and compel people against their will .
Most western democracies have constitutions which preserve the individuals right to bodily integrity , if we allow this cornerstone to be undermined ,were very much heading on a slippery downhill slope . I choose not get vaccinated but that doesnt mean I think this whole epidemic is a hoax either . I take reasonable precautions like frequent handwashing ,fask mask in public indoor spaces , the use of high strenght alcohol based hand sanitiser without other poisonous ingedients . I guess time will tell all in the end but the strategy we've adopted for fighting this virus could turn out to be flawed . Older people and those in high risk categories would seem to have the most to benefit. For me , in my mid 40's , no underlying health issues , no pills no potions from my doctor on a daily basis , good home cooked food , plenty of exercise , I'd rather risk contact with the virus (which may well already have happened) and to build my bodys immune response naturally , its a personal choice .
Maybe I was a little forcefull in my previous assertions , I'll leave my comments as they stand rather than redacting though , neither do I bear and animosity against people who do choose to get the vaccine. I will add that I found the handfull of people wishing ill health on others pehaps less fortunate than themselves quite unpleasent and somewhat surprising of someone from a healthcare backround.
Be safe , be well , be kind .
https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/opinion-mandatory-covid-19-vaccination-5499633-Jul2021/
In the comments section Professor Cox took quite a bashing over his views , not specifically from the vax hesitant ,but even from people that had decided to take the shots but still didnt believe in the use of coercive force to try and compel people against their will .
Most western democracies have constitutions which preserve the individuals right to bodily integrity , if we allow this cornerstone to be undermined ,were very much heading on a slippery downhill slope . I choose not get vaccinated but that doesnt mean I think this whole epidemic is a hoax either . I take reasonable precautions like frequent handwashing ,fask mask in public indoor spaces , the use of high strenght alcohol based hand sanitiser without other poisonous ingedients . I guess time will tell all in the end but the strategy we've adopted for fighting this virus could turn out to be flawed . Older people and those in high risk categories would seem to have the most to benefit. For me , in my mid 40's , no underlying health issues , no pills no potions from my doctor on a daily basis , good home cooked food , plenty of exercise , I'd rather risk contact with the virus (which may well already have happened) and to build my bodys immune response naturally , its a personal choice .
Maybe I was a little forcefull in my previous assertions , I'll leave my comments as they stand rather than redacting though , neither do I bear and animosity against people who do choose to get the vaccine. I will add that I found the handfull of people wishing ill health on others pehaps less fortunate than themselves quite unpleasent and somewhat surprising of someone from a healthcare backround.
Be safe , be well , be kind .
Shifting directions slightly:
Just asking questions - RationalWiki
Just Asking Questions, aka JAQ ing off, has reared its ugly head quite a bit in COVID discussions. It's popped up here and there on this thread, and it has been used more prominently by right wing propagandists like Tucker Carlson.
Only recently did I find this formal explanation for "Just Asking Questions," although I've certainly been annoyed by the use of this tactic in the past. For anyone not familiar with the tactic, a quick perusal of the link might be enlightening.
Just asking questions - RationalWiki
Just Asking Questions, aka JAQ ing off, has reared its ugly head quite a bit in COVID discussions. It's popped up here and there on this thread, and it has been used more prominently by right wing propagandists like Tucker Carlson.
Only recently did I find this formal explanation for "Just Asking Questions," although I've certainly been annoyed by the use of this tactic in the past. For anyone not familiar with the tactic, a quick perusal of the link might be enlightening.
I have read several books on the topic of persuasion (mostly for self defense). There is an open tug of war going on to control public sentiment.
I will be hard for a kid growing up today to not get programmed and influenced.
Good luck y'all...
JR
PS: There has always been an effort to persuade the public, but I worry that it has gotten much more sophisticated and powerful.
For a canary in the coal mine warning look at how the communist regime in China is managing public sentiment. We are not remotely like communist China but it is useful to learn the game and tools (incentives) they are using to manipulate their citizens.
I will be hard for a kid growing up today to not get programmed and influenced.
Good luck y'all...
JR
PS: There has always been an effort to persuade the public, but I worry that it has gotten much more sophisticated and powerful.
For a canary in the coal mine warning look at how the communist regime in China is managing public sentiment. We are not remotely like communist China but it is useful to learn the game and tools (incentives) they are using to manipulate their citizens.
From the reading I have done, it appears that all the vaccines use aborted fetal cell lines for testing. I won't support that. If someone want's to be vaccinated, I certainly wouldn't stop them, only just make my view known. The stuff I've been seeing in the news certainly seems to show that many of the vaccine supporters are not tolerant at all. I wonder how long it will be before more draconian measures are taken against those of us that don't subscribe to this vaccine narrative.
The 2 cell lines used date back to 1973 and 1985. No new fetuses are harmed in order to produce COVID vaccines. On the other hand, if you or someone like you chooses not to get vaccinated, then becomes infected, and then infects another innocent human, who then dies---is it better for you to choose not to get vaccinated because of your moral objections, and because of your choice cause another person to die, than it is to get a vaccine whose development causes no new loss of life whatsoever?
At the moment, it appears that there's no vaccine available in the US that did not use fetal cell lines at some stage. There are, however, some Chinese vaccines that did not, and several others under development that do not. Would you be open to using one of those if it were available to you?
crazydoc
Well-known member
The Roman Catholic position:
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2019/03...ife-encourages-parents-to-vaccinate-children/
Of course, everyone is free to make their own choice, realizing the potential consequences.
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2019/03...ife-encourages-parents-to-vaccinate-children/
Of course, everyone is free to make their own choice, realizing the potential consequences.
crazydoc
Well-known member
I have never wished ill health on anyone - quite the contrary, I advise vaccination for the improvement of health. Those who choose not to get vaccinated are wishing ill health upon themselves and others who are unvaccinated (it is unfortunate that those who "know it all" are sadly lacking in the fundamentals of viral replication, evolution and epidemiology). In this regard, I have only mentioned "poetic justice" - the fact of experiencing a fitting result for one's actions.
I do not advocate pressuring friends but there seems to be a lot of misinformation going around.
I posted the short Trump video touting the vaccine without too much of Trump's typical self aggrandizing, to my facebook page. Only a small handful of my friends will be triggered by Trump, so I hope that does more good than harm.
The reception has been very quiet. Exactly one (friend) liked it and no flames yet, but I don't have that many "facebook" friends. I only accept friend requests from people I knew before social media.
Today one different facebook friend (that I worked with last century) shared that he hasn't been vaccinated because he doesn't trust government or the drug industry. He cited the Thalidomide babies as evidence for why he doesn't trust vaccines. Now that's going back pretty far, but he is my age or a few years older.
I am still having a constructive dialog with him.
JR
I posted the short Trump video touting the vaccine without too much of Trump's typical self aggrandizing, to my facebook page. Only a small handful of my friends will be triggered by Trump, so I hope that does more good than harm.
The reception has been very quiet. Exactly one (friend) liked it and no flames yet, but I don't have that many "facebook" friends. I only accept friend requests from people I knew before social media.
Today one different facebook friend (that I worked with last century) shared that he hasn't been vaccinated because he doesn't trust government or the drug industry. He cited the Thalidomide babies as evidence for why he doesn't trust vaccines. Now that's going back pretty far, but he is my age or a few years older.
I am still having a constructive dialog with him.
JR
crazydoc
Well-known member
A well written and thought out article. I'm not in favor of mandatory vaccination for the population, but companies and agencies can require vaccination for employees if appropriate, and if they don't wish to comply, they can look for work elsewhere. I too have thought of the health care cost issues - a slippery slope, but people need to take fiscal responsibility for their choices.
Anyway, thanks for posting that - food for thought.
rock soderstrom
Tour de France
For the younger ones here is a link to some information on the Thalidomide scandal, better known in Germany and Europe under the product name Contergan.
For me an eternal warning example of what tragedies can happen when the pharmaceutical industry and the responsible governmental control authorities fail dramatically!
I have been vaccinated twice with Biontech.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide_scandal
Yes, I would be open to that. But
As far as the ethical considerations of not vaxxing, we all take our chances on this earth and any number of decisions could conceivably result in someones survival or failure to survive. I would much rather die from this or some other disease than base my morality on using products based on the abortion of a human life.
You know, my example was not an abstract one. There have already been cases of unvaccinated health care workers who have given COVID to patients in hospitals and nursing homes. And yes, there have been deaths.
And the problem is that you're potentially a threat to someone else's life, not that you're a threat to your own. What if your moral stance on the vaccine cost not your life but managed to cost the life of your kid, or your sister, or your best friend--because you infected them? Acceptable sacrifice for your opposition to using cells distantly descended from fetal tissue?
EDIT: To take it another step: what if an unvaxxed anti-abortion healthcare worker were responsible for giving your immunocompromised spouse, or son, or brother a case of COVID which led to their death?
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