covid politics

[JohnRoberts]

Amazing how quickly Republicans forget that Trump used the power of the Oval Office in his own battle to get social media platforms to bend to his will.

He was removed from social media while still in office. Pretty remarkable if you think about it.

They miss him so much they can't stop talking about him. Actually they miss the revenue from clicks he generated for them.

Of course, he was doing so for his own personal and political gain, and his grave concern was that he was being called out for lies and misinformation.

You mean like a typical politician. "misinformation" is the newspeak word redefinition of the week.

The Biden administration, OTOH, is instead concerned with limiting the flow of misinformation and in the process possibly helping to save the lives of ordinary American citizens.

perhaps the current administration needs to review their own track record wrt incorrect statements.

Further, from what I can tell, this is more about pointing out to Facebook et al that a small number of sources are responsible for most of the COVID disinformation, and trying to get the platforms to do more to control it.

indeed there are propaganda machines pushing divisive screeds (text generating robots , etc)... Conservatives are not trying to destroy our system of government.

Do you think Facebook can not identify them? Just like phone companies could stop robocalls except for the revenue they would lose.

The research they cite is from an independent source and did not originate from within the Biden administration (as much as the shrill voices on the right might wish that to be the case.)

"The Office of the Surgeon General has upped its tracking of "disinformation" related to the coronavirus pandemic on social media platforms, the press secretary said during a press briefing."

Social media platforms are structured in a way that is far more likely to promulgate scary lies than mundane truths. Even in the best of times this is problematic; during a public health crisis it's downright dangerous.

President Biden accused Facebook of killing people but that probably wasn't scripted for him.

The hyperbole meter needle is broken from pegging full up so many times.

Asking social media sites to do their job a little better does not seem like a significant threat to free speech, despite the pearl-clutching right wing freakout.

"Pearl clutching"....what are you talking about? I assume that is supposed to be some kind of insult.

It's worth noting as well that Biden, as far as we know, has not played the Section 230 blackmail gambit as Trump did on more than one occasion in his battles with social media platforms.

Do you think big tech is a positive force in modern culture? Section 230 should be repealed to make them responsible for their publications.

JR

PS: I was going to coin the phrase "soft fascism" but some blog beat me to it. IMO The partnership between big tech/social media and government is unhealthy for free speech and democracy.
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"Soft fascism is a process of anti-democratic governing that is not as overtly totalitarian or authoritarian as more historically memorable fascist states. Soft fascist governing has features like: corrupt electoral processes; legislative tactics that undermine democratic engagement."

 

[Brian Roth]

This is all very sad and confusing for many people. My elderly Mom (age 91) still seems to have her mind very intact. Yet, my 75 year old cousin (Mom's niece) has fallen down the Rabbit Hole from whatever internet "sources". Clip from a recent email sent by my cousin, referring to Yet Another long video she sent to Mom and me:

"Most of us have been inside the Truman Show Bubble and didn't even know it. Most of our lives what we have been taught has been a lie. What she didn't mention was that 911 was part of the Cabal's script and all the presidents (with the exception of Reagan and Trump) are part of the corruption and have played a part in the horrible child trafficking that is part of their satanic rituals. JFK was murdered because he was trying to stop the cabal even though his ancestors had been a part of the black hats.

I love you all and I hope you will try to understand why I keep trying to share with you what is coming. The global reset will bring us new "rainbow" currency backed by the gold that has been brought back to the US. I've no clue how the new banking system will work, but I guess maybe I'll learn when it is implemented. "

Bri

 

[iturnknobs]

I can't anymore(although I might). From reading the last two posts combined with a poll from CNN that shows that 50% of Americans believe that the election was stolen or they are anti-vaxxers...we are f*cked. It boggles my mind that almost all the stupidity revolves around one party. If I happened to vote that way, I sure would be asking why all the "crazies" were voting along side of me(birds of a feather?). Driving through a clump of rural towns 100 miles west of Chicago, signs are posted in yards that say "Unmask Our Children"... yes, the unvaccinated portion of our country. Please do. I pray that the pandemic mutates and worsens. I've had enough of trying to do the right thing. May the suffering begin...we clearly haven't suffered enough to make any significant change. What if 2020 was just the wind-up for the true sh*t show? Quite possible. Things don't have to be this way, but they are, and it's not because of the party I vote along side of. Stay stupid...or question why you stand along side those who are.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I can't anymore(although I might).

?

From reading the last two posts combined with a poll from CNN that shows that 50% of Americans believe that the election was stolen or they are anti-vaxxers...we are f*cked.

again ? A Rasmusson poll finds that 20-30% of democrats think the election was stolen. It is clear that most media are openly rooting for the left and still are, CNN .

I repeat anti-vaxxers were with us before COVID but the administration with off-again, on-again mask advice is casting shade upon vaccine efficacy and giving the anti-vaxxers ammunition. Not to mention the democratic candidates before election casting shade on the "Trump vaccine". Before the Nov vote a popular talking point from the democrats, parroted by both Biden and Harris, was not to trust the "Trump vaccine" because it was a political strategy.

It boggles my mind that almost all the stupidity revolves around one party.

That is your subjective opinion and not endorsed by the over 70 million voters who chose to vote for Trump. I suspect more than a few of those 70 million think your party is the stupid one.

If I happened to vote that way, I sure would be asking why all the "crazies" were voting along side of me(birds of a feather?).

I happened to vote that way... I only wonder why more didn't vote with me, but watching how the news was manipulated (favorable news stories helping Trump were suppressed, and news damaging to candidate Biden was suppressed (like Hunter's laptop). I understand how low information voters could easily be swayed by the lopsided news presentation.

Driving through a clump of rural towns 100 miles west of Chicago, signs are posted in yards that say "Unmask Our Children"... yes, the unvaccinated portion of our country.

There is a credible debate about benefit/harm from masking young children. Yard signs are not thoughtful debates.

Please do. I pray that the pandemic mutates and worsens. I've had enough of trying to do the right thing. May the suffering begin...we clearly haven't suffered enough to make any significant change.

This is not a healthy attitude, don't have a tantrum now.

We should worry about Covid again seriously in the fall. Now would be a good time for the administration to improve their messaging.

What if 2020 was just the wind-up for the true sh*t show? Quite possible. Things don't have to be this way, but they are, and it's not because of the party I vote along side of. Stay stupid...or question why you stand along side those who are.

Opinions vary about who is ignorant... Neither facebook nor politicians are the best source for medical advice.
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I repeat the administrations mixed messaging about vaccine efficacy is not encouraging unvaccinated to get jabbed. Advice to wear masks even if vaccinated creates more questions than answers. The flip flopping of this advice does not help.

======
I find it interesting that the Biden administration accuses Facebook of killing people while dragging their feet over identifying the actual source of this pandemic, in effect excusing China for the communist leadership there's hyperbolic misinformation and cover ups.

I don't like facebook, but they are not worse than China, in any world.

JR

 

[crazydoc]

There has always been propaganda to sift through, and its sources have multiplied like rabbits. The best I can do is look for evidence, data, and common sense. Unfortunately there seems to be a huge number of gullibles that will believe anything they or their associates want to or tell them to
believe, as long as it fits in to their weltanschauung, without any evidence to support it. The majority of these folks seem to fall into a particular segment of the political spectrum, with data and evidence to support that fit.

Possibly in the next year as a group they will get a nomination for the Darwin Award, especially now that the younger reproductive-age cohort seems to be driving their demise.

 

[JohnRoberts]

There has always been propaganda to sift through, and its sources have multiplied like rabbits. The best I can do is look for evidence, data, and common sense. Unfortunately there seems to be a huge number of gullibles that will believe anything they or their associates want to or tell them to
believe, as long as it fits in to their weltanschauung, without any evidence to support it. The majority of these folks seem to fall into a particular segment of the political spectrum, with data and evidence to support that fit.

Possibly in the next year as a group they will get a nomination for the Darwin Award, especially now that the younger reproductive-age cohort seems to be driving their demise.

Reportedly several of the TX democrats who fled to DC to block vote reform legislation in Texas have tested positive for COVID, despite all being vaccinated. This does not bode well for vaccination messaging. These breakthrough infections are supposed to be pretty rare. Reportedly they have no symptoms or only mild(?) symptoms (Or perhaps dodgy rapid testing). The delta strain may rewrite breakthrough infection frequency rates, but these breakthrough infections do not appear severe or dangerous (so get vaccinated).

VP Harris went to Walter Reed medical center for a "routine" doctor's appointment on Sunday. Multiple high level DC democrats met with members of the TX delegation, but I expect all will be OK.

I understand why low information voters have trouble making sense of this.

JR

PS: another distinction of importance wrt covid susceptibility is not just vaccination rate but we also should account for natural immunity. I know at least a couple neighbors who contracted and recovered fully from Covid. One was a plumber and the other a college student, so they both had lots of exposure. That plumber did some work in my house several months ago, well after he recovered and we were both masked up. I kept a responsible distance while he was working.

 

[crazydoc]

Reportedly several of the TX democrats who fled to DC to block vote reform legislation in Texas have tested positive for COVID, despite all being vaccinated. This does not bode well for vaccination messaging. These breakthrough infections are supposed to be pretty rare. Reportedly they have no symptoms or only mild(?) symptoms

It does not bode well for vaccination bullshitting, which I guess is all that the "low information" folks are capable of believing. If a vaccine is 95% effective, then approximately 5 of every 100 can be expected to get the disease, so 3 of 50 is statistically within that realm. The actual breakthrough rate in the general vaccinated population may seem much lower, but most of them, particularly the majority asymptomatic ones, are never tested, artificially lowering the number of positives.

 

[fazer]

From USAFacts. Government data received today by email. Cases are down 94% from the pandemic peak In the US, overall COVID-19 cases are down from peaks seen in late 2020 into 2021, but there are new hotspots. Explore more about where cases are down, who’s getting vaccinated, and how the distribution of deaths has shifted as the summer progresses. Thirty-two states and Washington, DC had case rates lower than the national average. Vermont, which leads all states with 74% of its population starting vaccination, had the lowest case rate with 0.6 cases per 100,000 people daily.

​

In June, there were 3.3 COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 people in the US. The death rate was nearly nine times higher in January at 28.5 deaths per 100,000 people. People 65 and older continue to make up most COVID-19 deaths. However, the age group’s share of deaths dropped from 84% of 18,555 deaths in early December to 65% of the 2,144 deaths in early June. Now, 88% of people in this age group have started vaccination, with 79% fully vaccinated. Track the state of COVID-19 this summer in four additional pandemic charts. https://us14.campaign-archive.com/?u=ff1bc9abb222ec965ded81e5e&id=260c111db9&e=aa823a510c

 

[crazydoc]

I don't think looking at case rates on a state by state basis is very meaningful at this point in the epidemiology of this disease. States have huge internal variation in their vaccination and case rates, California being a case in point. I look at it on a community level, with data tracking at it's most localized being at the county level. There are counties with low vaccination rates and high case rates, and vice-versa, within most states. I imagine there are opposite outliers too, but low vaccination and high case rates are almost certainly statistically significant.

A CNBC analysis of U.S. vaccination rates and Covid cases shows there are 463 counties across the United States with high rates of infection — reporting at least 100 new cases over the last week per 100,000 residents — more than twice the U.S. rate. A majority of those counties, 80%, have vaccinated less than 40% of their 23 million residents, the analysis shows, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and Johns Hopkins University.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/13/cov...ccination-rates-as-delta-variant-spreads.html

 

[iturnknobs]

So...my neighbor's "friend" was down in Nashville this past weekend. He has intentionally been trying to catch covid since it has been around. He believes it is a fake issue brought about by the "Dummycrats" in order to "control" society. He then went and visited his Grandma. We need more behavior like this to make people realize the error of their ways. I can't find any examples of this type of behavior exhibited by democrats. Here's some more right-wing stupidity...birds of a feather.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/19/politics/marjorie-taylor-greene-twitter-ban/index.html

 

[iturnknobs]

That is your subjective opinion and not endorsed by the over 70 million voters who chose to vote for Trump. I suspect more than a few of those 70 million think your party is the stupid one.

Not opinion. Hundreds of articles supporting this information.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...west-rockies-as-trump-country-rejects-vaccine
edit: Apologies. I didn't realize that was a paid suscription article. Watch me make my point as I just grab another link to the same topic.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...ccination-gap-with-trump-counties-grows-wider

 

[JohnRoberts]

Ex-President Trump has publicly advocated for people to get vaccinated. I can understand if you didn't see that.

If we could blame politicians for things their followers do, or don't do, all politicians would be in trouble.

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The latest example of political hyperbole is calling the TX Democrats visit to DC a "super spreader" event. While ignoring the ongoing actual super spreader event at the border.

President Trump should probably tweet or post his support for getting vaccinated on facebook.

JR

 

[iturnknobs]

A Rasmusson poll finds that 20-30% of democrats think the election was stolen. It is clear that most media are openly rooting for the left and still are, CNN .

Please provide links. The number I generally find when searching this claim is 3%...not 30%

I repeat anti-vaxxers were with us before COVID but the administration with off-again, on-again mask advice is casting shade upon vaccine efficacy and giving the anti-vaxxers ammunition. Not to mention the democratic candidates before election casting shade on the "Trump vaccine". Before the Nov vote a popular talking point from the democrats, parroted by both Biden and Harris, was not to trust the "Trump vaccine" because it was a political strategy.

You have twisted words to support your narrative. Link provided with actual quotes. Nice try. Anti-vaxxers have been around prior to this, but it was never political before. Bad point to make, given the data available and thread topic/title. That was NOT a political strategy. It was distrust in a distrustful man. I can provide links to over 25,000 false statements that were made. I can unarguably provide links to DJT lying to the public about C-19...endless links with audio clips.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/us/politics/biden-trump-coronavirus-vaccine.html

I happened to vote that way... I only wonder why more didn't vote with me, but watching how the news was manipulated (favorable news stories helping Trump were suppressed, and news damaging to candidate Biden was suppressed (like Hunter's laptop). I understand how low information voters could easily be swayed by the lopsided news presentation.

Favorable news stories? Trump was a bull in a china shop, sowing division. If there was any favorable news, his own actions suppressed those stories. Low information voters? Hunter's laptop? I would suggest not using that as a taking point in order to retain your credibility.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...giuliani-fbi-raid-hunter-biden-b1839979.html.https://www.forbes.com/sites/alison...ed-in-dc-following-ny-ruling/?sh=16c0512e5a17

There is a credible debate about benefit/harm from masking young children. Yard signs are not thoughtful debates.

There is no credible debate about mitigation of a contagion(mask wearing). Maybe during extreme physical activity, but running a race with a mask is stupid(please do not repost that sillyness). If there were health risks due to masks that outweighed disease spread, surgeons would have ended this debate decades ago.

We should worry about Covid again seriously in the fall. Now would be a good time for the administration to improve their messaging.

Just yesterday Steve Scalise was vaccinated and Mitch McConnell publicly told everyone to get vaccinated. Only their voters are dying now as a result of the tough guy/anti-science mentality spreading through the party. If they don't improve their messaging soon, data will show that being Republican is deadly. It may be too late. Hannity and other anchors on Fox(not)News are imploring everyone to get vaccinated in the past day or two. The irony of this all is that they only care about their number of viewers and voters, not the well being of society.

I repeat the administrations mixed messaging about vaccine efficacy is not encouraging unvaccinated to get jabbed. Advice to wear masks even if vaccinated creates more questions than answers. The flip flopping of this advice does not help.

It's not 'flip flopping" of advice. Things are changing rapidly because of variants spread by dummies caused by many Republican law makers. Mixed messaging? I could fill the page.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucel...vid-19-delta-variant-go-away/?sh=292011ec69f9https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrew...ng-points-in-letter-to-biden/?sh=7a01502754behttps://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...a-logic-to-anti-vax-republicans-irrationalityhttps://www.cnn.com/2021/07/15/politics/tennessee-republican-vaccine-controversy/index.htmlhttps://apnews.com/article/arkansas...ne-hesitancy-09cadd2e75ddd5a4c0758b2cb1b6cbfd

I find it interesting that the Biden administration accuses Facebook of killing people while dragging their feet over identifying the actual source of this pandemic, in effect excusing China for the communist leadership there's hyperbolic misinformation and cover ups.

I don't like facebook, but they are not worse than China, in any world.

JR

Biden adminstation advocates investigation into Covid origins.
https://fortune.com/2021/05/27/biden-probe-coronavirus-wuhan-lab-leak/Facebook needs to end anti-vax info from being spread. All willing bozos can scream in the echo chamber allowed by Parler. Finding the origin of this virus will do NOTHING for the current virus spread. Stay tribal.

Hunter's laptop?

 

[JohnRoberts]

Senator Paul got Dr Fauci back under oath and they ended up calling each other liars.

Sen Paul is referring Dr Fauci to Justice for criminal charges (lying to congress). I don't see the Biden administration doing that but Dr Fauci shifted to name calling instead of providing substantive testimony.

JR

 

[iturnknobs]

Ex-President Trump has publicly advocated for people to get vaccinated. I can understand if you didn't see that.

...as he blamed the Biden administration for being dishonest, resulting in a low vaccination rate.

edit: data is showing that only the unvaccinated(primarily Republicans) are in the hospital and dying. They finally have realized this and are scrambling. It will be a bloodbath in 2022 if they can't turn this around. They don't care about the people, just the votes and their money. Death counts follow case loads by 3 weeks. Hopefully people will see the way...probably not enough pain, yet.

The latest example of political hyperbole is calling the TX Democrats visit to DC a "super spreader" event. While ignoring the ongoing actual super spreader event at the border.

Those politicians were likely all vaccinated. You are comparing apples and oranges. Way to stay tribal, practically racist. Those people will never take my job and it is the responsibility of THE EMPLOYER to finish part 2 of the I-9/proof of citizenship forms. No one would be able to work if employers did their part correctly.

President Trump should probably tweet or post his support for getting vaccinated on facebook.

JR

Very funny...especially seeing as he did it IN PRIVATE. Point not made.

 

[iturnknobs]

Senator Paul got Dr Fauci back under oath and they ended up calling each other liars.

Sen Paul is referring Dr Fauci to Justice for criminal charges (lying to congress). I don't see the Biden administration doing that but Dr Fauci shifted to name calling instead of providing substantive testimony.

JR

Sometimes, dealing with tribalists who want to win just to win gets frustating. You could educate us all better by posting quotes from the actual exchange...like this one:
"I totally resent the lie that you are now propagating, senator, because if you look at the viruses that were used in the experiments that were given in the annual reports that were published in the literature, it is molecularly impossible" for those viruses to result in the coronavirus, Fauci responded.

Stay tribal. Be very afraid of those not like you. Always blame others instead of taking an introspective look.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Sometimes, dealing with tribalists who want to win just to win gets frustating. You could educate us all better by posting quotes from the actual exchange...like this one:
"I totally resent the lie that you are now propagating, senator, because if you look at the viruses that were used in the experiments that were given in the annual reports that were published in the literature, it is molecularly impossible" for those viruses to result in the coronavirus, Fauci responded.

Stay tribal. Be very afraid of those not like you. Always blame others instead of taking an introspective look.

Refrain from calling me a tribalist... I am not sure exactly what that means but I don't like it, so stop.
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There is far more to the Fauci/Paul confrontation than the political spin in response to current news cycle.

I am pretty sure I documented this before so won't repeat the entire finance chain of how NIH money got to the Wuhan lab. As I recall it involved a third party who received the funds from NIH and then in turn funded research at the Wuhan lab...

When a FOI dump of Fauci's emails revealed more of his finger prints on the lab funding this confrontation during senate testimony was all but inevitable.

I will leave it to others to prosecute Dr Fauci's involvement and impeach his testimony. Sen Paul is probably more interested in his testimony last time, before the email dump, revealed his involvement.

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I can appreciate that there is scientific merit to gain of function research, GoF research has been going on for decades. NIH lifted their pause on GOF research in 2014 (paused by then President Obama) and then restarted it in 2017 (for flu, sars, and mers viruses). NIH press link

The senate unanimously passed an amendment banning US funding of GOF research, even using the same NIH language that Dr Fauci argues is not describing GOF.

I do not expect the public or even the political talking head spinners to understand the ramifications of this. They likely just see it as another blunt instrument to bludgeon the other team with. Of course this is a much more complex subject.

I was just remarking on the ongoing play by play action between Fauci/Paul.

JR

 

[iturnknobs]

Refrain from calling me a tribalist... I am not sure exactly what that means but I don't like it, so stop.
=====
There is far more to the Fauci/Paul confrontation than the political spin in response to current news cycle.

I am pretty sure I documented this before so won't repeat the entire finance chain of how NIH money got to the Wuhan lab. As I recall it involved a third party who received the funds from NIH and then in turn funded research at the Wuhan lab...

When a FOI dump of Fauci's emails revealed more of his finger prints on the lab funding this confrontation during senate testimony was all but inevitable.

I will leave it to others to prosecute Dr Fauci's involvement and impeach his testimony. Sen Paul is probably more interested in his testimony last time, before the email dump, revealed his involvement.

====

I can appreciate that there is scientific merit to gain of function research, GoF research has been going on for decades. NIH lifted their pause on GOF research in 2014 (paused by then President Obama) and then restarted it in 2017 (for flu, sars, and mers viruses). NIH press link

The senate unanimously passed an amendment banning US funding of GOF research, even using the same NIH language that Dr Fauci argues is not describing GOF.

I do not expect the public or even the political talking head spinners to understand the ramifications of this. They likely just see it as another blunt instrument to bludgeon the other team with. Of course this is a much more complex subject.

I was just remarking on the ongoing play by play action between Fauci/Paul.

JR

I was referring to Fauci getting frustrated to R. Paul chasing a conspiracy theory instead of encouraging his constituents to adhere to mitigation practices and vaccination recommendations. It must be exhausting. I'm not saying it didn't come from the lab. Fauci is saying that the data doesn't currently support that claim. Why must it always be an us versus them solution? That is a very "Republican" reaction, and I cannot get behind that type of mentality. It is tribalist, separatist and unhelpful for society overall. As far as I can tell, there is much speculation over redactions and filling in of assumptions. Republicans chum the waters and the instinctual sharks appear. Show all us the email that proved Fauci's involvement.

https://www.masslive.com/coronaviru...ter-thousands-of-communications-released.htmlhttps://healthfeedback.org/claimrev...sks-hydroxychloroquine-and-virus-engineering/https://nypost.com/2021/06/03/fauci-emails-heres-what-we-learned/https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...prove-wuhan-conspiracy-raise-further-n1269650
edit: upon further research, it would appear that the issue is being discussed is whether or not Fauci knew of the lab-leak theory. I'm sure he did. His emails clearly show this. So what? It absolutely does not show that he had something to do with it. In fact, the author of this email bringing this theory to his attention has rebuked the likelyhood of this theory being accurate. Next conspiracy theory, please...and like I have said, focus on mitigaton. The cause of this virus has NOTHING to do with the current issue of dealing with the spread in an environment of misinformation.

 

[iturnknobs]

...not only is there no evidence that traces Covid back to a lab(quite the contrary), but it turns out that Rand Paul is not even pushing that point. He is just trying to catch Fauci in "a lie" about GOF research and whether or not it even occurred. Who cares? Especially if it DOES NOT have anything to do with Covid. Rand Paul admits in the first 60 seconds of his time that no one knows if covid is at all related to GOF research. He also illustrates that he fully does not understand the research that he references. He also FINALLY admits the seriousness of the virus by trying to blame Fauci for a worldwide pandemic with 4 million deaths...SO NOW IT'S SERIOUS? This comes from the man refusing to get vaccinated, that refuses to wear a mask, that advocates unmasking children, that DOES NOT encourage virus mitigation and public vaccination...WOW.

May Rand Paul "encourage" his number of voters to self-reduce that number. "Republicans for the death of Republicans." New 2022 campaign slogan.

edit: Ron DeSantis now has publicly said that vaccinations are almost 100% effective in preventing death...as he loses more and more voters. Disingenuous at the very least.

 

[iturnknobs]

Mixed messaging? BAD MESSAGING. Waiting for a witty comeback on this one...
https://nypost.com/2021/07/15/gov-ron-desantis-sells-dont-fauci-my-florida-merch/