Donald trump. what is your take on him?

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DaveP said:
Last night's air strike looks like redefining our perceptions about Trump.  These are not the actions of an incompetent IMHO and it had full UK support.

Trump disagrees with you:

[quote author=@realDonaldTrump]
If Obama attacks Syria and innocent civilians are hurt and killed, he and the U.S. will look very bad!
[/quote]
or:

[quote author=@realDonaldTrump]
What will we get for bombing Syria besides more debt and a possible long term conflict? Obama needs Congressional approval.
[/quote]
or perhaps:

[quote author=@realDonaldTrump]
The President must get Congressional approval before attacking Syria-big mistake if he does not!
[/quote]
You would do well to stop listening to Trump, and start listening to Trump.

And anyone who thinks this wasn't cleared with Russia beforehand isn't reading between the lines.
 
Matador said:
You would do well to stop listening to Trump, and start listening to Trump.

And anyone who thinks this wasn't cleared with Russia beforehand isn't reading between the lines.

Something like that....
 
That points out the problem right there, fazer.

https://twitter.com/zlingman/status/850402510472978433

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/850108455620837376

https://twitter.com/JackSmithIV/status/850158733376225280
 
DaveP said:
Last night's air strike looks like redefining our perceptions about Trump.

"our" is defined differently by different people I'm guessing...

DaveP said:
It sends a message to Putin that he is not the only one who can take the initiative and that there are limits to what the US will allow.

So there we have it then. The US decides what others will be allowed to do. The world police if you will.

Some would maybe think that when a nation 5,500 miles and an ocean or two away has an internal issue one would at least seek an international neutral investigation into the matter and proving guilt before punishing. But it seems that to conservatives any conflict is a nail and the only solution is more Tomahawk...

Kill first, verify guilt later. Screw congress (and humans killed in the attack).

DaveP said:
It could not have been better timing to convince the Chinese President that he is serious about North Korea.

So I suppose the death and destruction in the wake of the strike is a worth while cost of sending a message to non-Syrians, like Putin and the Chinese President, correct? As usual I'm inclined to ask if principles such as the ones implied here are free for all or only for "our" team. Probably just "our" team. I'm guessing if North Korea decided that the US strike on Syria was as unjustified as the (alleged) Syrian strike was bad for Syrians it would be equally justified in attacking Costa Rica.

DaveP said:
If it ever needed saying, we now know for sure that Trump is not Obama.

These are not the actions of an incompetent IMHO and it had full UK support.

DaveP

Says more about the people of the UK.
 
https://twitter.com/ActualFlatticus/status/850381094159609857

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/850477149895131136

Let’’s start with what we don’’t know. Experts remain uncertain what chemical(s) were involved in the horrific chemical attack, almost certainly from the air, on the village of Khan Sheikhun in Idlib province in Syria. The nerve agent sarin, chlorine, and unknown combinations of chemicals have all been identified as possible, but in the first 48 hours nothing has been confirmed. We don’’t know for sure yet what it was that killed more than 75 people, many of them children, and injured many more.

Crucially, we also don’’t know who was responsible. Western governments, led by the United States, and much of the western press have asserted that the Syrian regime is responsible, but there is still no clear evidence. Certainly Damascus has an air force, has been known to use chemical, particularly chlorine, weapons in 2014 and 2015. So that’s certainly possible.

“A US military escalation against Syria (because we must not forget that US Special Forces and US bombers are already fighting there) will not help the victims of this heinous chemical attack, it will not bring the devastating war in Syria to a quicker end, it will not bring back the dead children.”

The Syrian military denies using chemical weapons. Their international backer, Russia, claims that the Syrian military did drop bombs in the affected area but that the chemical effect was not in the bombs dropped but rather from the explosion of an alleged chemical warehouse under the control of unnamed rebel forces. The same report by the United Nations and the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons that found Syrian government responsibility for chlorine attacks also found that ISIS had used another chemical weapon, mustard gas, and investigated at least three other chemical weapons attacks whose perpetrators could not be identified. So that could be possible as well.

For a variety of reasons, some of these possibilities don’’t hold up so well if the chemical used this week was the sarin nerve agent — but we don’’t know yet what it was.

There are some other, perhaps even more important things, that we do know. We know that in 2013, at the time of an earlier, even more deadly chemical weapon attack, similar accusations against the Syrian regime were widely made, assumed to be true, and used as the basis for calls for direct US military intervention in the civil war. And we know those accusations were never proved, and that it remains uncertain even now, almost four years later, who was actually responsible.

And we know that the bombing of Syria in 2013 was averted, despite President Obama’’s “red line” being crossed, because an enormous US and global campaign against such a disastrous escalation made it politically too costly to launch a new US war. This was a president willing but not eager, or driven, to go to war. When Obama turned decision-making over to Congress, hundreds of thousands of people across the United States called and wrote and emailed their representatives, urging them to prevent a new war. In some offices calls were running six or seven hundred to one against a new bombing campaign.

more

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/04/trump-syria-chemical-weapons-know-dont-dangers-ahead.html
 
Former U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) does not believe that Syria’s Pres. Bashir al Assad launched a chemical weapons attack on a rebel held village on Tuesday.

On his “Ron Paul Liberty Report” broadcast on Wednesday, the Libertarian-leaning Republican proclaimed that the chemical weapon attack on Tuesday was a “false flag” operation designed to smear Assad and involve the world in a global war.

“Before this episode of possible gas exposure and who did what, things were going along reasonably well for the conditions,” said Paul. “Trump said let the Syrians decide who should run their country, and peace talks were making out, and Al Qaeda and ISIS were on the run.”

“It looks like, maybe, somebody didn’t like that so there had to be an episode, and the blame now is we can’t let that happen because it looks like it might benefit Assad,” he said.

“It’s not so easy though is it? What happened four years ago in 2013, you know, this whole thing about crossing the red line?” Paul continued. “Ever since then, the neocons have been yelling and screaming, a part of the administration has been yelling and screaming about Assad using poison gas.”

“It makes no sense, even if you were totally separate from this and take no sides of this and you were just an analyst, it doesn’t make sense for Assad under these conditions to all of the sudden use poison gasses,” he said. “I think it’s zero chance that he would have done this deliberately.”
 
I get the impression that a lot of Americans look at their own news feeds and comments in microscopic detail, but fail to take note of comment in Europe.  From what I've read, every European country supported the strike and thought it was long overdue.

There are really only two possibilities here, either the Syrian air force dropped sarin on the village or it was in a munitions store that was bombed.

From the footage I saw, there were only small craters commensurate with impact and a release munition.  Of course rebels were hardly going to show the press a ruined stockpile because they would have to accept some blame for keeping sarin near a population of their own people.  I also understand that sarin would likely be consumed in a high explosive explosion, correct me if I'm wrong.  In view of these possibilities I would be inclined to defer to experts on who did what here.  European sources say the gas was sarin.

Assad was supposed to have delivered up all his chemical weapons under the deal brokered by the Russians, but I realise that the rebels may have got hold of some before the deal was fixed.  I'm inclined to believe that Assad thought the Russian "umbrella" would protect him from come-back, he has had a reality check.

DaveP

 
Why would we poll you guys opinions about whether we need to get into another war? You're right, we couldn't care less.

You want a war? Go for it, cowboy. We're not your pigs. You can pay for it by giving up your healthcare, like we do.

With no proof it was sarin, european sources saying it means no more than anyone else saying it. The other possibility you leave out is that it was a false flag to get the US bombing Assad, perhaps to get a pipeline for the saudis...and europeans. Reconstruction, you know, after all the killing and dying subsides a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjOr2YzrZDY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnSAB4qeDug
 
Assad has not hesitated to use ruthless means to stay in power. In confronting the most recent use of chemical weapons in Syria, credible questions remain as to why Assad would bring world opinion against him at a time when his continued rule is beginning to be accepted.

http://www.dw.com/en/is-assad-to-blame-for-the-chemical-weapons-attack-in-syria/a-38330217

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/06/the-dead-were-wherever-you-looked-inside-syrian-town-after-chemical-attack
 

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Why would we poll you guys opinions about whether we need to get into another war? You're right, we couldn't care less.

You want a war? Go for it, cowboy. We're not your pigs. You can pay for it by giving up your healthcare, like we do.

With no proof it was sarin, European sources saying it means no more than anyone else saying it. The other possibility you leave out is that it was a false flag to get the US bombing Assad, perhaps to get a pipeline for the saudis...and europeans. Reconstruction, you know, after all the killing and dying subsides a bit.
You've missed the point.
No-one was suggesting you asked permission or that you went to war, it was simply that Europeans and Turkey  supported the limited action period.  I think for pigs you should substitute allies.

DaveP
 
DaveP said:
You've missed the point.
No-one was suggesting you asked permission or that you went to war, it was simply that Europeans and Turkey  supported the limited action period.  I think for pigs you should substitute allies.

DaveP


It is all just geopolitical horse play though isn't it. The gas, the delivery of missiles, the political posturing. The only support they are all truly interested in is solidifying their own position amongst the mess. When it comes to gas, a position that even remotely reflects complacency is as good as an endorsement politically speaking. You've gotta let everyone know that you are ok with killing people one way or another, don't cha know?

No doubt this support will also slowly fade into a feeling of deep-seated regret just like... well... the last four decades, as we search out the bad guys that only seem to exist when we start looking for them.
 
DaveP said:
......................

It was of course a message to Assad.  He has put Putin in a difficult situation, with this gas attack .....
........................

DaveP


DaveP said:
There are really only two possibilities here, either the Syrian air force dropped sarin on the village or it was in a munitions store that was bombed.



DaveP


Dave,

You  need to be consistent with your views on this issue.

However, if you are suggesting that it was a Syrian Government depot and was bombed by the rebels, then the reason for this action does not hold.

If it was a rebel depot and bombed by Syrian Air Force, then it still does not hold.
 
DaveP said:
I get the impression that a lot of Americans look at their own news feeds and comments in microscopic detail, but fail to take note of comment in Europe.  From what I've read, every European country supported the strike and thought it was long overdue.
Do not try to draw broad impressions about the american public from posts in this forum. (Including mine)  8)
There are really only two possibilities here, either the Syrian air force dropped sarin on the village or it was in a munitions store that was bombed.
intelligence reports identified the poison gas attack as coming from that very air base in Syria. The military was able to mount a response so quickly because these plans had been developed for President Obama to use after his "red line" declaration.
From the footage I saw, there were only small craters commensurate with impact and a release munition.  Of course rebels were hardly going to show the press a ruined stockpile because they would have to accept some blame for keeping sarin near a population of their own people.  I also understand that sarin would likely be consumed in a high explosive explosion, correct me if I'm wrong.  In view of these possibilities I would be inclined to defer to experts on who did what here.  European sources say the gas was sarin.
don't try to second guess this from press reports, they are all over the place, promoting their different agendas. 
Assad was supposed to have delivered up all his chemical weapons under the deal brokered by the Russians, but I realise that the rebels may have got hold of some before the deal was fixed.  I'm inclined to believe that Assad thought the Russian "umbrella" would protect him from come-back, he has had a reality check.

DaveP
The deal brokered by the Russians was a face saving exercise for Pres Obama after his "red  line" threat that he walked back by  punting it to congress for authorization (AUMF). One might ask, why did the Russians do this, what did they get? Note: while Pres Obama asked for an AUMF to diffuse responsibility about his Syrian red line, his administration did not find it necessary to consult congress before supporting/participating in the attack on Libya.

Interesting news clips dug up of Pres Obama, Susan Rice and John Kerry taking a victory lap and patting themselves on the back for getting rid of all the Syrian poison gas, using just their powers of persuasion.  ::)

If you guys want something to chew on, the President does have the power to take short term responsive military actions, but to wage a wider war congress must provide authorization. President Trump and before him president Obama, have been using the same congressional authorization that President Bush got to pursue Al qaeda after the 9/11 attack.  The mission has evolved and expanded since then. A new AUMF with more realistic evaluation of the current and ongoing world situation might be useful, but it would surely lock up the congress with some contentious debate and they would get even less accomplished. I won't hold my breath for a new AUMF, but if Trump is really reading my mind, who knows?  ;D
JR
 
Sammas said:
It is all just geopolitical horse play though isn't it. The gas, the delivery of missiles, the political posturing. The only support they are all truly interested in is solidifying their own position amongst the mess. When it comes to gas, a position that even remotely reflects complacency is as good as an endorsement politically speaking. You've gotta let everyone know that you are ok with killing people one way or another, don't cha know?

No doubt this support will also slowly fade into a feeling of deep-seated regret just like... well... the last four decades, as we search out the bad guys that only seem to exist when we start looking for them.
Yes there seems to be a disconnect with Assad responsible for killing some 400,000 Syrians, and displacing millions, while using poison gas on a tiny fraction of that number.  Yes international law outlaws use of poison gas, while I guess it is OK to murder hundreds of thousands with barrel bombs and the like (attacking civilian hospitals, another Assad strategy is also illegal)?

I do not see it as our responsibility to squash every petty dictator, even one with as many kills as Assad. ISIS on the other hand has declared war against us so will reap the whirlwind. No one would lose any sleep over Assad falling, except for who will replace him? The big problem with indiscriminate regime change (like in Libya).

JR
 
JohnRoberts said:
Yes international law outlaws use of poison gas, while I guess it is OK to murder hundreds of thousands with barrel bombs and the like (attacking civilian hospitals, another Assad strategy is also illegal)?

Of course it's not ok, but the bigger question really is if you or anyone else wants it to be ok. That is the question. Because no matter how you slice it we only end up having to discuss if the rules and laws and treaties we create should be equal to all or apply only to some.

And so in this very forum you no doubt have people who will justify acts internationally determined to be illegal, simply because of who is doing it, or finding some justification in a circumstance that isn't found in the actual treaty or legislation making it illegal.

Or let me put it differently using a different example: Many Americans complain that UN isn't working, yet when you push them for an answer they actually don't want it to work in the first place. So their argument that it should be gotten rid of because it isn't working is entirely disingenuous. And so it's similar with this notion of international law.

It sucks, but that's the way it is.
 
The Trump administration appears divided on whether the U.S. is pursuing a policy of regime change in Syria, days after the first direct American military attack against the Syrian government.

Thursday’s strike “was related solely to the most recent horrific use of chemical weapons,” Secretary of State Rex Tillerson told ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos on Sunday. The goal of the attack was to send a message to Syrian President Bashar Assad and its ally Russia that the U.S. wouldn’t tolerate the use of chemical weapons, he continued. “Other than that, there is no change to our military posture.”

But United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley said there can be no peace in Syria with Assad in power. “There’s not any sort of option where a political solution is going to happen with Assad at the head of the regime,” she told CNN’s Jake Tapper on Sunday. “Regime change is something that we think is going to happen because all of the parties are going to see that Assad is not the leader that needs to be taking place for Syria.​”

...


White House National Security Adviser Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster said in an interview with Fox News on Sunday that he hoped the chemical weapons attack would prompt Russia to reconsider its support for Assad. “Russia should ask themselves, ‘What are we doing here? Why are we supporting this murderous regime that is committing mass murder of its own population and using the most heinous weapons available?’” McMaster said.

The secretary of state is set to travel to Moscow later this week. He said he will remind his counterpart of Russia’s obligation to act as the guarantor of the agreement to eliminate chemical weapons from Syria. 

“I don’t draw conclusions of complicity at all, but clearly they’ve been incompetent and perhaps they’ve just simply been out-maneuvered by the Syrians,” Tillerson said of Russia. “I hope Russia is thinking carefully about its continued alliance with Bashar al-Assad because every time one of these horrific attacks occurs, it draws Russia closer into some level of responsibility.”​

more

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-regime-change-syria_us_58ea3b71e4b00de141040930?ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

 

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