Donald trump. what is your take on him?

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Well, for example, Steve Scalise once described himself as, "David Duke without the baggage."

Fascist?

Or Not Fascist?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_duke

https://twitter.com/politico/status/875515455439503360

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
 
tands said:
Well, for example, Steve Scalise once described himself as, "David Duke without the baggage."

Fascist?

Or Not Fascist?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_duke

https://twitter.com/politico/status/875515455439503360

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Scalise does not appear to be a fascist. He apologized in 2014 for that comment made to a reporter, and "remembered" 20 years later to discredit him. David Duke , a convicted criminal, and white supremacist, had (has?) a political following in LA, Scalise's district, chasing some of the same votes (what politicians routinely do) does not make him David Duke.. but can surely come back to bite him (politically) as this did. David Duke was elected and served in the LA House of representatives. DD is/was clearly a racist (KKK member) but serving in the LA legislature does not make even him a fascist. 

I do not know Scalise nor followed his career (before he was shot)...  but that seems a pretty thin justification for the accusation of being a fascist (now), or rationalization for assassination. Violence is never justified in politics or demonstrations.

I have seen changes in southern culture (for the better) in the several decades since I have lived here. I am still a damn yankee to some of my neighbors. I lived in Stone Mountain GA for a time, but that does not make me KKK.

Identity politics like this is corrosive to working together to accomplish the people's business. People throw around terms like fascism more for pejorative shock value than with any understanding of what the words mean.

JR
 
He was describing his own self, though. Just like David Duke?

David Duke was elected and served in the LA House of representatives. DD is/was clearly a racist (KKK member) but serving in the LA legislature does not make even him a fascist.

lol.
 
White guy rams van into muslims, and not a sound on this forum or on Trump's twitter account. No calls for the internment of all known white extremists, or EDL members either.

Same story after Portland.

giphy.gif
 
Banzai said:
White guy rams van into muslims, and not a sound on this forum or on Trump's twitter account.
I try not to see Trump's twitter rants. I think you have mentioned this here now.

Last night on TV there was mention of the car attack in Paris, and the Finsbury Park Van attack (?)...With some back story about the significance of that mosque to the local community.

Today's WSJ mentions the Paris Car attack, but not the Van attack on the front page (I haven't read the entire paper yet). 

[update] OK read the paper and Van attack was on page 7 right next to paris car attack. The WSJ described the van as white but the terror suspect as living in Wales. The driver was being beaten by witnesses after he fled the van but the imam tried to stop them.. incident described as terror attack.  [/update]

No calls for the internment of all known white extremists, or EDL members either.
I had to google "EDL" apparently that's a brit or EU thing... There were recent protest against Sharia law here that was a little unexpected (to me) since so few of the general public even know what it is. That sounds like something EDL might do but google credits a group called "ACT for America", a little bizarre to see the counter protests (antifa)  against them supporting Shariah, but I've tried to ignore them too.  (Antifa's name is self-parody and sounds like a SNL skit).
Same story after Portland.

giphy.gif
I'm not sure which protest in Portland, they like their protests there... Perhaps you are talking about  May day protest where 25 were arrested or June free speech demonstration, and antifa counter protest (14 arrested)?

I don't know about internment camps but anyone and everyone who performs criminal acts at such demonstrations(riots?)  that cause property damage and/or human injuries,  needs far more than catch and release judicial system slaps on the wrist...

Free speech and right to assemble is protected, but criminal acts are simply criminal and should not be encouraged or lightly tolerated.  They need incarceration and/or fines that even George Soros would notice.

JR

PS: I try not to start difficult arguments here, and several far more newsworthy stories occurred over the last couple days IMO. I agree that any non-specific violent backlash against all muslims is not only not productive, but probably a goal of islamic radicals who consider this a war between cultures, so want to divide us into large us/them groups. Versus the actual minority of wackos, fighting against the rest of the rational (?) world...
 
White guy rams van into muslims, and not a sound on this forum or on Trump's twitter account. No calls for the internment of all known white extremists, or EDL members either.
I take your point, but I tend to post on things that are unexpectedly outrageous, this did not surprise me unfortunately, I have been waiting for some kind of backlash.  The guy was a loser (common theme) and he killed no-one, the guy who died had already fallen and died of other causes.  The Imam behaved impeccably.

EDL stands for English Defence League, they are a group who are trying to reclaim certain areas that have been taken over by Asian Muslims.  It is a hopeless cause because we have passed the point of no return, England will never be as it was, again.

DaveP
 
JohnRoberts said:
(Antifa's name is self-parody and sounds like a SNL skit).

You must mean that one about Neville Chamberlain.

In the 1920s and 1930s in the Weimar Republic, Communist Party and Social Democratic Party members advocated violence and mass agitation amongst the working class to first stop the Freikorps movements in immediate post-WW I Germany, and not long thereafter, Adolf Hitler's Nazi Party. Soviet revolutionary Leon Trotsky wrote:

    [F]ighting squads must be created ... nothing increases the insolence of the fascists so much as 'flabby pacifism' on the part of the workers' organisations ... [It is] political cowardice [to deny that] without organised combat detachments, the most heroic masses will be smashed bit by bit by fascist gangs."[18]

Among the anti-fascist organizations formed to counter the Nazis was the Roter Frontkämpferbund ("Red Front Fighters' League"), which was created in 1924. The Roter Front was a paramilitary organization affiliated with the Communist Party of Germany that engaged in street fights with the Nazi Sturmabteilung. Its first leader was Ernst Thälmann, who would later die in a concentration camp and become widely honored in East Germany as an anti-fascist and socialist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-fascism
 

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tands said:
You must mean that one about Neville Chamberlain.
NO... I'm not talking about an actual SNL skit, I'm saying that a group of rioters who use force to stop people that they don't agree with from speaking, then call themselves anti-fascist are a self-parody (doing what they claim to oppose).

definition said:
Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce, that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.
I'm surprised you know about Neville Chamberlain, the poster boy for appeasement, that didn't work out very well for them in WWII.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-fascism
Are you suggesting that the modern antifa is remotely similar to actual anti-fascism efforts almost a century ago, opposing real fascism?  The political hyperbole is  not grounded in fact.

The lack of legislative progress suggests to me that the democratic process is alive and still functional, while unpleasant to watch.

JR
 
JohnRoberts said:
NO... I'm not talking about an actual SNL skit, I'm saying that a group of rioters who use force to stop people that they don't agree with from speaking, then call themselves anti-fascist are a self-parody (doing what they claim to oppose).

Right, so "It's the people fighting the Nazis who are the REAL Nazis!"

  ;D ::)

.
 
By Moon Of Alabama

June 27, 2017

The White House claims that the Syrian government is preparing "chemical weapon attacks".

This is clearly not the case. Syria is winning the war against the country. Any such attack would clearly be to its disadvantage. The White House announcement must thereby be understood as preparation for another U.S. attack on Syria in "retaliation" for an upcoming staged "chemical weapon attack" which will be blamed on the Syrian government.

In August 2013 Syria invited inspectors of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons to investigate chemical weapons attacks on the Syrian army. As soon as the inspectors arrived in Damascus a "chemical attack" was staged in Ghouta near Damascus. Lots of Jihadist video coverage of killed children was published and the "western" media blamed the incident on the Syrian government. It never explained why targeting a militarily irrelevant area with chemical weapons at the same time as inspectors arrived would have been a rational decision for a Syrian government that was just regaining control and international standing.

The "attack" was clearly staged by the opposition of the Syrian government and its foreign supporters. The Obama administration had planned to use it to launch U.S. attacks on the Syrian government but refrained from this when Russia arranged to remove Syria's strategic chemical weapons, aimed at Israel, instead.

In early 2017 the new U.S. president Trump made positive comments about the Syrian government. Assad can stay, he said. The Syrian military and its allies had gained the upper hand and were victorious on all fronts. Two days later another "chemical attack" was staged in the al-Qaeda held town of Khan Sheikhun. Lots of Jihadi video coverage of killed children, likely prepared in advance, was spilled onto the "western" public. U.S. intelligence knew that no chemical attack by the Syrian government had taken place. But the Trump administration used the incident to launch a volley of cruise missiles against a Syrian military airport. The neoconservatives were delighted. They finally had Trump where they wanted him. The media coverage changed from damming Trump for his alleged "Russian connections" to lauding his decisiveness in response to the faked attack.

Late May the new French president Macron ostensibly changed his position towards the Syrian government. The hostile position of France (and other EU countries) against the Syrian president Assad that had been eminent throughout the last six years changed on a dime:

    Macron said that on Syria: “My profound conviction is that we need a political and diplomatic roadmap. We won’t solve the question only with military force. That is a collective error we have made. The real change I’ve made on this question, is that I haven’t said the deposing of Bashar al-Assad is a prerequisite for everything. Because no one has introduced me to his legitimate successor!

But Macron also added:

    "I have red lines on chemical weapons and humanitarian corridors. I said it very clearly to Vladimir Putin. I will be uncompromising on that. So the use of chemical weapons will be met with a response, and even if France acts alone.”

This immediately set off my warning lights:

    Moon of Alabama @MoonofA - 4:28 PM - 29 May 2017
    You like fakes? Tune in to Macron announcing the next False Flag chemical weapon attack in Syria.

Like all "red lines" this one Macron set was an invitation to the Takfiris to launch more fake incidents. Others had a similar reaction to Macron's (fake) turnaround.

...

    In an ominous statement issued with no supporting evidence or further explanation, Press Secretary Sean Spicer said the U.S. had “identified potential preparations for another chemical weapons attack by the Assad regime that would likely result in the mass murder of civilians, including innocent children.”

    He said the activities were similar to preparations taken before an April 2017 attack that killed dozens of men, women and children, and warned that if “Mr. Assad conducts another mass murder attack using chemical weapons, he and his military will pay a heavy price.”

    Several State Department officials typically involved in coordinating such announcements said they were caught completely off guard by the warning, which didn’t appear to be discussed in advance with other national security agencies. Typically, the State Department, the Pentagon and U.S. intelligence agencies would all be consulted before the White House issued a declaration sure to ricochet across foreign capitals.

...

-

The announced fake "chemical attack" and the "retaliation" it is supposed to justify will likely happen in the south-west of Syria around Deraa where all recent attempts by Israel and the U.S. supported Takfiris to dislodge the Syrian government forces have failed. The provocation, now prepared and announced by Macron and the White House and supported by the UK, is probably planned to happen shortly before or during the upcoming G-20 meeting in Hamburg:

    President Trump and members of his administration are requesting a full bilateral meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin at the G-20 summit in Germany next month.

    While some administration officials have pressed for a quick "pull-aside" meeting at the Group of 20 summit or lower officials talking privately instead of the heads of state, Trump wants an event that includes the media and time for work sessions, according to one government official.

Trump has to make a deal (or war) with Russia and the announced fake "chemical attack" will be the pressure point against Putin. The neoconservatives in his administration want to break up Syria and Trump is tasked to get the Russian agreement for that (... or else.)

more

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/47337.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNDmDZi05dY

.

 
It seems the man knows what a fake is:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/a-time-magazine-with-trump-on-the-cover-hangs-in-his-golf-clubs-its-fake/2017/06/27/0adf96de-5850-11e7-ba90-f5875b7d1876_story.html
 
The proclivity of media to practice political advocacy  instead of objective journalism will eventually come back to bite them if/when the public decides to care.

The hyper intensive partisan investigations will likely range wider into areas and behaviors that can also come back to bite the instigators. There seems to be lots of bad behavior and few actual crimes. (In federal rips it's usually lying or cover- ups that lead to penalties, but we've seen a bunch of those go unpunished recently.)

In an interesting (perhaps) move, Susan Rice's work papers regarding unmasking and investigations have been moved to the Obama Presidential library and sealed, where they may be kept from the public for 5 years.  I don't care for partisan witch hunts that routinely follow the ebb and flow of government control changing hands, but the administration that promised to be the most open, is holding their cards pretty close to their chest.

One thing that seems to be missed by most observers is that any Russian Hacking of the US election would have occurred under Pres Obama's watch.

This is all painful but interesting to watch as I expect unintended outcomes from at least some of the sundry investigations.

JR
 
JohnRoberts said:
Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce, that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

Let's see.  A president with ties to businesses (and mobsters) around the  world, who uses  the office of the presidency for personal gain.  A SOS whose ties to big oil tie in very neatly with his interest in US-Russian relations.  A president who attacks the free press at every turn.  White House press gaggles where cameras are not allowed.  None of this reeks of fascism in the least, does it? 

Add it in with the outsize influence various plutocrats and pillars of the military-industrial complex already enjoy, and it starts to look a whole lot like the F word. 

And what you call "democracy working" is starting to look more and more like corporations fighting over competing interests, with the "will of the people" becoming little more than an annoyance or occasionally useful cudgel in battles where "the people" are at best a secondary concern. 
 
hodad said:
White House press gaggles where cameras are not allowed.  None of this reeks of fascism in the least, does it? 

The brouhaha about the press gaggle without cameras is because the biased media reporters (actually one guy from CNN) wanted to get videos of himself asking argumentative questions that they can later replay on TV.  A written transcript doesn't provide enough drama to keep the rating up... the sucker even hired a sketch artist.. ::)  (Trump derangement syndrome).

If anything this administration is too open with Pres Trump tweeting his every thought... TMI.

You made a number of unsubstantiated claims that I won't respond to.


JR
 
JohnRoberts said:
You made a number of unsubstantiated claims that I won't respond to.
JR

It's amazing how much higher the burden of proof is for things you don't want to believe vs. the ones you do.  Tillerson comes from a corp with a huge oil deal with Russia sitting unexploited due to US govt. sanctions.  Does one think he came to the job because he's going to get tough on Russia?  Of course not. 

Trump engages in saber-rattling with China just prior to being issued a bucketful of Chinese trademarks.  Was he using the office for personal gain?

Trump doubles membership fees at Maralago as soon as he's elected president.  Using the office for personal gain?  Of course not!!

Kellyanne Conway pimping Ivanka's crap in an interview?  Perfectly acceptable!  Not using the office as a personal profit center at all!

It's your lying eyes that are giving you so much trouble.  Why do they keep letting you see things that contradict the beliefs that are so very important to you?
 
trump has historically low disapproval in the country. You cannot change everyone's mind, but the majority of people have realized what a mistake he is.

His character and actions are beneath most people's standards. Most of his attention seems to be given to yelling at the TV.
It will be a stain on this country for a long time.


 
hodad said:
It's amazing how much higher the burden of proof is for things you don't want to believe vs. the ones you do. 
It's remarkable how low the burden of proof is for media stories these days.
Tillerson comes from a corp with a huge oil deal with Russia sitting unexploited due to US govt. sanctions.  Does one think he came to the job because he's going to get tough on Russia?  Of course not. 
One of the assets that Tillerson brings to his job is the fact that he has dealt with Putin face to face before. Putin is a serious ex-KGB heavyweight who should not be underestimated.

Tillerson already sold his exxon stock so has nothing to gain personally from lifting sanctions.  I seem to recall Exxon submitting a request to relax russian sanctions that was summarily dismissed. 

Trump has been active about relaxing russian sanctions and I suspect that is for leverage to get Putin to be more helpful in the middle east against ISIS... At the moment Russia has declared a no fly zone over parts of syria, and their willingness to target US aircraft in the zone because the US took out one of Assad's aircraft that was targeting US backed forces. Congress is unlikely to relax sanctions until they lighten up in the Ukraine.
Trump engages in saber-rattling with China just prior to being issued a bucketful of Chinese trademarks.  Was he using the office for personal gain?
Didn't hear that story...  OK per google jewelry, wedding dresses, etc... Looks like Ivanka's branded business. The law is a little squishy about POTUS and shutting down personal businesses. The Trump brand it too intertwined with the man for him to sell it. Ivanka should be careful to not abuse her closeness to potus in her business dealings. Seems impossible to both work for her father and run her business.

Trump is pressuring China to help rein in North Korea since China feeds and supplies energy to them... If we take direct action against N Korea, they will attack S Korea and mess up the whole peninsula. If N korea falls, China gets millions of hungry immigrants looking for jobs. China is already using N Korean slave labor (not literally slaves). Their earning get taken by the N Korean government, so they are working for little or nothing. Probably still better than starving in N Korea.
Trump doubles membership fees at Maralago as soon as he's elected president.  Using the office for personal gain?  Of course not!!
Trump may have done that to keep the rabble out... Maralago is his idea of a place to relax.
Kellyanne Conway pimping Ivanka's crap in an interview?  Perfectly acceptable!  Not using the office as a personal profit center at all!
IIRC that was in response to media attacks against Ivanka and her clothing lines in some east coast stores. I don't recall all the details but the media attacks actually helped her sell clothes.
It's your lying eyes that are giving you so much trouble.  Why do they keep letting you see things that contradict the beliefs that are so very important to you?
Is that a new country and western song?  8)

Politics is rampant with different sides interpreting the exact same events differently.  Nothing new in that regard.

JR

PS: The 2018 midterms will be a more accurate assessment of Trump's popularity. The media polls seem to be suffering from a lot of wishful thinking lately. 
 
micaddict said:
The real question is what were they thinking to begin with.

"You have tens of millions of extremely disaffected people, who understand all the arguments about Brexit, about why it was dangerous and potentially risky, understood all the arguments about why Donald Trump was unstable and offensive, and yet they voted for these things anyway, and they're going to continue to vote for them, because they despise the system that they are being told might be destroyed if they are disobedient, and even more they hate the media and political elites who are telling them that they can't do this."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLqSpk99bLYITmcxrrXJNUC4lUqVaEvZpn&v=t85IB238708

 

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