Donald trump. what is your take on him?

[DaveP]

Another reason this is a public health issue and not a law enforcement issue  is that we are in control of Afghanistan where the majority of the worlds opium poppy is grown. If we eradicate the poppy the country starves. If we don't the money is funneled to the Taliban and the heroin comes here. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

This is a very important point on several levels.
There has been a world shortage of morphine in the past,
http://www.chronicle.co.zw/morphine-shortage-hits-hospitals/
So it would have made good sense to legitimately buy the Afghan production for refinement for medical use, thus servicing the shortage and depriving the Taliban of income at the same time.

I see this as an opportunity missed, a win win situation lost.
I can only suspect big pharma's hand in why it was not implemented.

DaveP

 

[cyrano]

More likely the CIA.

Remember that plane that made an emergency landing in the desert a few years back? It was a business jet, loaded with several tons of cocaine. The same plane had been seen transporting people to Guantanamo. That was news that vanished from main stream media in 24 hours.

In 2012, the USA spent 6 billion dollars to switch Afghan farmers to other crops. The poppy crops were never as big as that year.

Somebody doesn't want them to succeed, or they are very, very bad at the task at hand. Make your pick.

 

[Tubetec]

Ever heard of a guy called Anthony Poshepny ?
Heres a bit of a biography on him ,http://www.soldiers-of-misfortune.com/history/apocalypse-now.htm
The CIA were involved in the opium and heroin trade long before Afganistan , It was the perfect way to fund anti communist forces in south east Asia (Vietnam ,Thailand ,Laos and Cambodia) and bypass any need for congressional approval for funds etc. Meanwhile back at home you had a rising Anti war and civil rights movement , initially the CIA had attempted to use LSD,by proxy, in vast quantities to break the back of the hippies and protesters , it didnt work . Vast amounts of heroin started arriving in towards the mid to  late 60's, the peace and love brigade were to be subdued by turning them into junkies , a hideous but very effective strategy.  Theres another article somewhere online ,I cant find it now, that seems to point to links between Poshepny and other Cia people implicated in the Kennedy assassination.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              As far as I know morphine for medical purposes is only produced by handfull of specially licensed companies  world wide, the vast majority of prescription opiates are synthetic.Sure it would make a lot of sense to allow places like Afganistan to legally produce and sell their opium for medical production , but then the CIA and big pharma would find themselves out of pocket big time . Drugs and war have gone hand in hand forever . Subsequent to the south east asia heroin supply route ,the focus switched to south and central America  and cocaine ,as the 80's came in you had serious trouble brewing up in the middle east again ,Syria  Lebanon Turkey were the route into europe for opium coming from further east  . I guess the ultimate step was the taking of Afganistan ,no need for middle men anymore  ,stuff coming direct from source and profit maximised. Theres an interesting film called Buffalo Soldiers ,its drama of course ,but gives some insight into what might have been going on mid to late 80's. Many have also suggested a connection between the CIA ,the Lockerbie bombing , Lybian secret services  ,and heroin , one source seeming to point to a couple of agents trying to make it back to the US with evidence in hand to blow the lid on a massive drug opperation centered around a  CIA office in Cyprus . Interesting subject for sure ,very very difficult to find any concrete evidence on anything for obvious reasons .   

 

[dmp]

Maybe it was a money thing....????
Got in trouble when I was 18....
$10000 later, I was on probation......
Got in trouble while on probation.....
$8000 later, more probation....
There is a system that is in place. I have zero clue how to file, the proper channels and statutes ....etc....
Lawyers know all that stuff..... And paid a lot of money to learn it.....
Probably had to work hard...etc.....rich parents....who knows....
And public defenders aren't establi$hed attorneys btw....
Just saying...... Could account for some of the jail.....

Yes, the financially well off can afford better lawyers that know the system better.  The right to a trial by your peers and the right to representation is far better than the historical norm. But the system could be improved more.  We as a society could pay public defenders better to attract higher talent I suppose. Who would oppose that?
But the MORE unfair point remains. The sentencing rules were 100x harsher for crack than powder cocaine.
Imagine if a speeding ticket in old beat up cars  was 100x as expensive as a speeding ticket in a new BMW? 

 

[dmp]

Background on an individual's right to not stand and salute the flag in the USA:

the U.S. Supreme Court had ruled, in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (1943), that forcing children to salute the flag violated the Constitution. The court held that saluting the flag is a form of utterance and that the right to not speak is as equally protected under the First Amendment as the right to free speech. “The case is made difficult not because the principles of its decision are obscure but because the flag involved is our own,” wrote Justice Robert Jackson for the 6-3 majority. “Nevertheless, we apply the limitations of the Constitution with no fear that freedom to be intellectually and spiritually diverse or even contrary will disintegrate the social organization. To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous instead of a compulsory routine is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds.” The decision was handed down on Flag Day.

It is particularly interesting in Trump's comments that he seems to understand that the kneeling is constitutionally protected speech. He doesn't imply that the state should take action against them (totalitarianism). He appeals to the power of Capitalism and the power it allocates between employer and employee to control and suppress an individual's right to speech.

"Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, 'Get that son of a bitch off the field right now, out, he's fired. He's fired,'" Trump said.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I use an example to explain to people when they make bad use of statistics. It's the following:

20% of road accidents involve drunk driving. We should get all these sober drivers off the road! They cause 80% of the accidents!

Likewise, this stat is perhaps completely skewed, as the black dads might just be in jail, or even dead. Without necessary background info, numbers mean nothing.

And, FWIW, the scientific community has finally found the guts to openly identify one of the major reasons the USA has big problems with opioids. It's big pharma that has been telling MD's for many years that their popular pain killers had no addiction danger.  We all know that to be a big lie. We've known that for almost twenty years.

I don't know about the "scientific community" but the danger of addictive narcotics has been well known for more than 20 years (19th century). It is hard (impossible?) to ignore the economic incentive for the medical community to play fast and loose with prescribing very addictive painkillers, for drug company profits.

Some drug formularies are starting to restrict length (# of doses) in prescriptions for addictive painkillers, but this may be too little too late. (Better than nothing).

41 states' attorney general have banded together to investigate pharmaceutical companies, Ohio has already sued 5 drug companies and I expect more lawsuits to follow. Not unlike suing cigarette companies to offset the costs that states incur dealing with the bad effects of consumers using their products.

Healthcare system costs are feeling the impact from dealing with increased addiction and deaths, when people addicted to legal pain killers turn to cheaper illegal drugs like fentanyl.

My 88YO neighbor had problems getting an opioid painkiller prescription filled (he has real pain), requiring extra paperwork and hurdles. (in fact I don't know if he ever got those meds.) While I don't see him as a very high risk patient, at least some healthcare systems are trying to deal with this problem. 

JR

PS: "Mashed potatoes" is an old classic cliche' about statistics stating that correlation does not prove causation. If convicted felons in prison consume more mashed potatoes than non-felons that does not mean that mashed potatoes causes crime. (it means they serve a lot of mashed potatoes in prison). 

PPS: In case you all haven't noticed there is more real news from all around the world than Sports. This seems like a massive distraction to keep media occupied.  How about the Kurds voting for independence? Now that is pretty interesting. 

 

[dmp]

PPS: In case you all haven't noticed there is more real news from all around the world than Sports. This seems like a massive distraction to keep media occupied.  How about the Kurds voting for independence? Now that is pretty interesting.

Agreed, it is a distraction. Not about the kurds though.
A distraction from another failed attempt by the Republicans to overturn the ACA.
And... it's not "sports" news at all, it is free speech news. Are you in agreement with the President that a good way to silence dissent & an individual's right to free speech is to take away their employment?

 

[JohnRoberts]

Agreed, it is a distraction. Not about the kurds though.
A distraction from another failed attempt by the Republicans to overturn the ACA.
And... it's not "sports" news at all, it is free speech news. Are you in agreement with the President that a good way to silence dissent & an individual's right to free speech is to take away their employment?

No I do not look to twitter for serious commentary about constitutional questions.

While i consider this discussion an intentional distraction and waste of time, my opinion is the athletes are shooting themselves in the foot, by insulting a large fraction of their audience that pays their outlandish salaries to play school boy games.  The owners will take action to preserve their viewership ratings already in trouble (perhaps even helped by this Trump controversy).  FWIW the NFL enjoys a very valuable antitrust exemption so maybe they need to lighten up a little with their government criticism, but they have a difficult task balancing the fragile egos of young sports millionaires against business interests.

The athletes already have plenty of opportunity to make public statements off the field. Yes this taking a knee is protected speech too,  but because we can does not mean we should.  8) Lebron James (arguably the best basketball player in the sport) has been publically disrespectful to POTUS, but this is not surprising, he aggressively supported Hillary.

I can't stop watching the NFL because I wasn't watching it before.  I don't recall politics being all consuming injecting itself into every aspect of modern culture before.  I can hardly watch business news without snarky political spin being injected into commentary.

JR

PS: President Trump is like that old drunk uncle at thanksgiving dinner with no filters who says whatever he thinks (and what many people think, but don't say). Trump is not even drunk... image what he might say after a few.    (I don't want to know.)

 

[dmp]

No I do not look to twitter for serious commentary about constitutional questions.
...
I don't recall politics being all consuming injecting itself into every aspect of modern culture before. 

Well Trump is not a uniter, he is divider. Just what the country needs [sarcasm]
I don't think it is a constitutional question at all if businesses need to respect employees speech. A business can fire an employee at will. I may be wrong though.

We have a very different recollection of the Obama years...
The right wing media was foaming at the mouth with the volume at 11.

 

[DaveP]

Some drug formularies are starting to restrict length (# of doses) in prescriptions for addictive painkillers, but this may be too little too late. (Better than nothing).

We never had this problem in Europe because National Health systems try to keep costs down, doctors have always been very strict about prescribing over here, there is no way you could get oxycotin for a sprained ankle, you might get it for two days after a major Op, that's all.

DaveP

 

[JohnRoberts]

Well Trump is not a uniter, he is divider. Just what the country needs [sarcasm]
I don't think it is a constitutional question at all if businesses need to respect employees speech. A business can fire an employee at will. I may be wrong though.

We have a very different recollection of the Obama years...
The right wing media was foaming at the mouth with the volume at 11.

This is a bit of a stretch. but I first perceived a shift in media disrespect for POTUS during Bush 43 administration. He practiced a turn the other cheek philosophy of not engaging with personal attacks. His father famously didn't take crap from media when he dressed down Dan Rather on TV.  But 43 left the insults unanswered and over the years media detractors became bolder and bolder. 

President Trump is the exact opposite of 43, leaving no insult unchallenged. Not very presidential, but media is not very professional either. It would be easier to criticize President Trump's behavior if he didn't spank all the other candidates in elections. He beat my first choice in the primary.

I am waiting for this media frenzy to die down, but they are enjoying record ratings and profits so I don't see them very motivated to calm down. Likewise many in modern culture are profiting from being partisan. So I expect more rather than less in the future.

The high road is less travelled and lonely.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

We never had this problem in Europe because National Health systems try to keep costs down, doctors have always been very strict about prescribing over here, there is no way you could get oxycotin for a sprained ankle, you might get it for two days after a major Op, that's all.

DaveP

This may be an erroneous anecdotal recollection but I vaguely recall reading (years ago) that the UK national health system sometimes prescribed heroin (or equivalent) to terminal cancer patients. It seems addiction is less of an issue for terminal cancer patients, and they certainly deserve effective relief from pain. 

I suspect at least some of the profits made from selling oxycontin (redneck heroin) and biosimilar drugs, will get clawed back by state lawsuits to mitigate the costs of all the increased addiction, while the dead addicts will still be dead.

JR

 

[DaveP]

This may be an erroneous anecdotal recollection but I vaguely recall reading (years ago) that the UK national health system sometimes prescribed heroin (or equivalent) to terminal cancer patients. It seems addiction is less of an issue for terminal cancer patients, and they certainly deserve effective relief from pain. 

No, you are correct.  They have small pumps connected intravenously and can control the input themselves up to a limit.

DaveP

 

[DaveP]

I have never taken any drugs, smoked weed or even tobacco  :
I think I'm from another world

DaveP

 

[dmp]

Alcohol?
Perhaps the most dangerous drug from a public health perspective...

 

[DaveP]

Three glasses of wine gives me a headache, Gin and tonic OK though.
Original party pooper, if that doesn't mean something altogether worse in the US

DaveP

 

[Tubetec]

Beer and the odd spliff does me these days ,an ocassional  drop of whiskey to sip .
I did try a few other things over the years , stimulants ,hallucinogenics on a handfull of ocassions ,no interest in that anymore.
Most of my mates went through an extasy phase in the late 80's to mid 90's ,Im not into techno so avoided that whole scene.
The coke started to become big business here about 15 years ago ,no coincidence either that Irish republicans had forged links to Farc in the jungles of south America , and that we have a massive very poorly policed coastline right at the most westerly point of europe . I know quite a few who got a taste for the peruvian marching powder , ended up costing them ,not just financially ,but spiritually emotionally and in friendship and relationship terms more than they ever bargained for , Im very glad I didnt go down that rocky road .Knew a few who got a taste for the opiates of one kind or another ,some long since gone off the face of the planet ,some recovered and doing well ,and some hanging on like strings of misery.

I notice nowadays that many take what I term lifestyle pharmaceutical products ,antidepressants  ,antipsychotics ,anti anxiety pills of one sort or another ,they and their doctors will swear blind there not addicts nor the pills addictive. These types of pill become less and less effective over time prompting the usual response from the medicine men  ,'double the dose and come back and see me in a few weeks'. When this fails they endlessly chop and change different meds and doses ,often with catastrophic physical health implications for the patient , massive weight gain and diabetes being very common .

Life's a bit of a rollercoaster at the best of times ,modern media tending to feed the down swings ,sure you can find a pill,powder or potion to iron out the emotions or numb the senses but then you cant experience the up swings either .Some can and do get themselves off this merry-go-round ,others try but as soon as the drug wears off and they have to deal with their emotions and reality again they start falling apart at the seams. What Im saying is theres less difference between illicit and prescribed drugs than what were led to believe, one very often takes the place of the other ,take the case of the prescription opiate addict who cant get anymore scripts and ends up using street junk  or the alcoholic who trades their fondness for the juice for valium ,either way round the underlying issues arent being addressed.

The illegal drugs are demonised  ,war on drugs is the biggest illusion going ,war relies on drugs to fund itself ,and the atrocities of war in turn create new generations of addicts.

The medical and pharmaceutical industry is little more than a money making machine in its own right ,it doesnt care if people end up hooked ,or if they suffer debilitating side effects, they dont care about polluting the environment and releasing carcinogenic substances, it all keeps the wheels of industry turning and the profits increasing year on year .

 

[Gene Pink]

The medical and pharmaceutical industry is little more than a money making machine in its own right ,it doesnt care if people end up hooked ,or if they suffer debilitating side effects, they dont care about polluting the environment and releasing carcinogenic substances, it all keeps the wheels of industry turning and the profits increasing year on year .

Well put. Not just the part I have quoted, the whole post is good.

Attached, is the pharmaceutical industry's goal.

Gene

Edit: PS: remember this picture the next time your doctor tries to shove more pills down your throat.

 

[DaveP]

Tubetec.

Excellent Post, wish we had more like that

Oxymoron.

"There goes the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn.

I wish I was a moron, My God perhaps I am!"

Gene.
I have sent your pic to my wife  :-X

DaveP

 

[Tubetec]

Scott,Gene and Dave,
Thank you very much for the kind words .

I guess to some extent as adults were in a position to make a choice as to what we take or not ,but it seems like bad behaviour is now a good enough reason to zonk kids out on all kinds of dope ,its a tragic situation ,which will no doubt have far reaching implications down the line.