Donald trump. what is your take on him?

[Gold]

Miss Kitty Wells

 

[tands]

She'll be a good friend to you.

 

[bluebird]

, but I don't attribute this to genetics or some kind of chemical imbalance ,which is often what the medical people trot out.

I certainly do. I use to get home from work and literally break down crying for no particular reason. Well maybe because I listen to NPR on the way home from work... But that aside, the oddity of feeling and the randomness in nature of the episodes lead me to believe it is very chemical.  Maybe it is the result of some trauma when I was a kid but who knows. When you say " what the medical people trot out" you are doing that judgment thing. Those people are very smart and worked hard to get to where they are. A lot of brilliant chemists and scientist worked very hard to come up with some pretty amazing things that help millions of people with depression.  I'm not down with the "just rub some dirt on it and get back out there" attitude. I'm not going to live life suffering just so I can say I'm tough. I want to enjoy life like everyone else and if some really smart people found a chemical that targets the problem in my brain that makes me sad...amazing...than I'm gonna take it.

"Had it been up to the psych witchdoctors they'd have kept me that way ,numbed and dummed "

There it is again. These are mostly people like you and me who believe they are doing the right thing for other people. They have family's and lives and bills and... souls.

Thanks for sharing your story and I don't doubt it was a f**ked up experience for you. And I believe you speak the truth but it your truth not mine. I just wanted to express my experience because you seem to be saying the whole psychiatric and pharmaceutical industry is all doom and gloom, corrupt and evil, and that's a very narrow view. I am quite aware of big pharma turning a blind eye to addiction, crazy side effects, and screwing peoples lives up. But within those companies, regular caring people reside, make a living, and honestly believe they are doing more good than harm.

Humans and indeed the entire animal kingdom has a tendency to prey on the weak and vulnerable ,what we term mental illness is a manifestation of this ugly trait, a way to marginalize and undermine the credibility of those who refuse to play along with this charade we call civilised society .

But WE ARE civilized society. You and me. WE ARE the charade. You can't separate your self because your typing on a computer, on the internet. Going to the grocery store... Buying shoes.  ;D

I'm really not trying to argue the details. I'm trying to point out a bigger idea that we are all so interconnected that its impossible to make commentary on anything political or about society without being hypocritical, so whats the point?

 

[tands]

We really aren't interconnected enough to be responsible for the acts of others, bluebird.

Flowers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdl6c_JFDxc

 

[JohnRoberts]

End of life care is hugely expensive. Some would argue wasteful. That eats up a lot of the available pie.

I have been writing exactly this for years, but it seems worth repeating... There will never be enough money for everybody to get every possible treatment they want.  So rationing will always occur.

The question becomes whether I decide to forgo some procedure  (like replacing my bad knee joint) because I am unwilling to pay for it,  or some mid level bureaucrat makes the decision about me. 

This is arguably an over simplification, but we have an aging demographic and increasing end of life healthcare costs.  We tend to look at other county's socialized medicine through rose colored glasses. They are not immune from the same demographics and economics.

I am not saying it isn't broken now, or wasn't before ACA, but expecting an honest discussion about this from Washinton is like waiting for godot.

JR

 

[Gold]

I have been writing exactly this for years, but it seems worth repeating... There will never be enough money for everybody to get every possible treatment they want.  So rationing will always occur.

That's my point. Resources are always finite. Not only healthcare. It's how the society divides it up that matters. I personally think spending huge piles of cash to prolong a life for a few weeks is wasteful. You may disagree. I think everyone should have healthcare. Like John said if we are going to cover everyone then some things will have to not be covered.

Wherever there are large piles of cash and vulnerable people there will be corruption. That's why buying healthcare is not like buying shoes.

 

[JohnRoberts]

That's my point. Resources are always finite. Not only healthcare. It's how the society divides it up that matters. I personally think spending huge piles of cash to prolong a life for a few weeks is wasteful. You may disagree.

I am repeating myself (again). Before my brother died of cancer he shared with me, that he would have never spent the roughly $500k on chemo and cancer treatments that postponed his death 5 years. If it was his money he would have put a new roof on his house and saved the rest of the money for his family's future security. Actually 5 years is pretty good for a gut cancer cancer diagnosis. I had a cousin with gut cancer who died in 6 months, but that was years ago, and without the half million in chemo and medical treatments.

In fact I pretty much expect to die from cancer... like my brother, younger sister, multiple cousins, father, step father,  etc.  Despite my high probability, I do not embrace the amount of money spent on modest incremental improvements to cancer life expectancy. I would favor continuing long shot "hail mary" research looking for big breakthroughs but not spending billions to postpone the inevitable a few months/years at a time.  I have seen this a number of times in close relatives, they attack the original cancer that then dodges and re-emerges elsewhere, until systematic collapse ensues..

I think everyone should have healthcare. Like John said if we are going to cover everyone then some things will have to not be covered.

I would like to see a universal socialized bare bones health coverage for the neediest among us (not unlike some other cash starved socialized systems), but with a competitive environment for private industry healthcare in parallel so innovation and advances can still be driven by market forces.  Do not ruin what we have to take care of a relatively small fraction of us who need assistance.

Wherever there are large piles of cash and vulnerable people there will be corruption. That's why buying healthcare is not like buying shoes.

The classic issue I see is spending OPM (other people's money). People never apply the same spending discipline as when spending their own money.  While letting government run the whole thing sounds good on paper, government has a long track record of being wasteful, sloppy, and not very prudent with spending OPM.

JR

 

[tands]

As long as whatever death panel rule you guys come up with applies to everyone, regardless of whether they have money or not, (or their race, sex, intelligence, etc) I'm fine with it. The ability and desire to exploit others for one's own profit should not be the test of someone who should live, while others die. Only their prognosis.

Anyone want to talk about Ayn Rand?

    Ayn Rand was not only a schlock novelist, she was also the progenitor of a sweeping “moral philosophy” that justifies the privilege of the wealthy and demonizes not only the slothful, undeserving poor but the lackluster middle-classes as well.

    Her books provided wide-ranging parables of “parasites,” “looters” and “moochers” using the levers of government to steal the fruits of her heroes’ labor. In the real world, however, Rand herself received Social Security payments and Medicare benefits under the name of Ann O’Connor (her husband was Frank O’Connor).

Center for the Study of the American Dream Founding Director Michael Ford wrote:

    As Pryor said, “Doctors cost a lot more money than books earn and she could be totally wiped out” without the aid of these two government programs. Ayn took the bail out even though Ayn “despised government interference and felt that people should and could live independently… She didn’t feel that an individual should take help.”

    But alas she did and said it was wrong for everyone else to do so. Apart from the strong implication that those who take the help are morally weak, it is also a philosophic point that such help dulls the will to work, to save and government assistance is said to dull the entrepreneurial spirit.

    In the end, Miss Rand was a hypocrite but she could never be faulted for failing to act in her own self-interest.

http://www.snopes.com/ayn-rand-social-security/

.

 

[Gold]

There are many ER doctors who have DNR tattooed on their chest. This comes from an ER nurse.

My mother died from cancer when I was 16. That was in the 80's when hospice  care was a new thing. I think it's a good thing.

 

[Tubetec]

I personally believe more should be done about the causes of cancer ,as long as the big bucks are in offering people a so called cure or end of life services ,wheres the incentive to stop putting out the causes ?
Delve back into the Mkultra files theres loads there about the search for the so called cure ,often the substances administered increased the rate of growth of tumours . The various techniques and incentives put forward by shelf companies to professors and heads  of various institutions such as prisons, mental homes and university hospitals are also well documented.

Here in Ireland most terminal care services are provided by charitable institutions ,if your well off you certainly can donate something ,if your poor you can still recieve the same treatment ,its maybe a more equitable system in one sense ,but these same so called charitable organiseations are very much tied up in experimental testing for possible cures too , at the end of the day the most of the funding comes from industry who at the back end are the beneficiaries of any intellectual property that accrues, theres one thing for sure there not doing it for the greater good ,theres money to be made ,pure and simple.

Its just past the 24th aniversary of the passing of  my dear Grandad Willy Joe ,a tremendous charachter who lifted himself and many family members out of the poverty that ensued after WW1 and in subsequent years our own struggle here in Ireland for nation status. He'd always expressed a wish to die at home ,not in the care of the 'union' as it was known ,his final years he spent with us at home ,he had his drop of whiskey and later the morphine with the push button delivery system( Dave P explained about that in an earlier post) to kill the pain of the bone cancer that took him in the end aged 82 . There was no major cost involved , we had a wonderfull housekeeper who the old boy got along great with ,once a day the local health nurse would come and load the syringe driver with the pain killer and he was surounded by familiar faces till he drew his final breath. This financial bleeding out of the old and vulnerable at the end of their days thats going on nowadays is f**ked.

This topic is evolving into something alot more meaningfull than the us and them divisionalistic shite which keeps the p1ss licking policticians on their thrones .Thank you all for sharing a little more of the personal and less of the pack mentality .

 

[rob_gould]

“He’s a very fine man,” Trump said of Price, not long before his resignation was announced

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/29/tom-price-resigns-health-secretary-private-flights-trump

Very fine man...

 

[Tubetec]

Price: President ,I do not concur
Trump: Get the f**k outa here ,your fired

 

[Tubetec]

Who's next? Chairman of the joint chiefs of staff ,
This is starting to look like a chess game where the King Donald takes out his entire back line without the enemy even having to make a move

 

[Tubetec]

From the album of the same title as my previous post ,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q
Real genius on the sound board too Glyn Johns

 

[Tubetec]

Ironic sense of humor goes a long way these days ,you'd have to either laugh or cry.

 

[Gold]

Hopefully Pruitt. He's foul. He's in trouble over flights too. So is Zinke but he lets you bring your dog to work and says no public lands will be sold under his watch. He's for more commercial exploitation of public lands than I am but seems like an decent guy.

 

[Tubetec]

Guantanamo Bay Express?

heres a grand ould tune ,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl0ahDKR0QU

 

[Matador]

Who's next? Chairman of the joint chiefs of staff ,
This is starting to look like a chess game where the King Donald takes out his entire back line without the enemy even having to make a move

Indeed.  He certainly has surrounded himself "with the best people"! 

 

[bluebird]

We really aren't interconnected enough to be responsible for the acts of others, bluebird.

Flowers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdl6c_JFDxc

Nice song! I actually cut the vinyl for that album. If you look in the lead out groove you will see my initials, a little I.S. scribed into the vinyl. ;D

We are and we aren't. In one way we are more disconnected than ever. In part because of technology. In part because of media and the fearful ideas it promotes. The news, reality shows , commercials.  Makes people afraid to leave they're houses. And now you don't have to. People proxie themselves through the internet.  Is that good or bad?

In another way, our actions are funneled together by google, amazon, ebay, netflix, itunes, you tube, huge conglomerates. We are very interconnected in this sense. The majority of our actions are analyzed and decisions are made on how better to sell products to large swaths of people.  The internet has brought people together like never before. And our accumulated actions move business, move resources, move the world. So by participating at all... you are part of the movement, even if it is heading in a direction you don't like.

Ian

 

[tands]

Ha Ha! That's awesome  ;D I think it's a great record, except for you know, the bad songs. I love how many layers there are in all the songs, and Flowers has such beautiful harmonies. I love Miho going, "Obi Wan Kenobi told me in the lobby.." on Sci-Fi Wasabi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COMWwwv_MTk

https://twitter.com/rtyson82/status/913920394838597632