Donald trump. what is your take on him?

[DaveP]

That's your angle, you do the spadework.

DaveP

 

[DaveP]

Can't see how it could be a language barrier thing and that I misunderstand, but I certainly hope so..

It is a language thing.  I meant there is no reason why any black guy should not do well, there is no difference between us, we all have the same genetic roots.

DaveP

 

[Unit7]

It is a language thing.  I meant there is no reason why any black guy should not do well, there is no difference between us, we all have the same genetic roots.

DaveP

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[mattiasNYC]

That's your angle, you do the spadework.

DaveP

Excuse me, but it was your proposition that there was a drug problem that black people had to deal with, not ours. And you previously went out of your way to explain how you wouldn't accuse Trump of being a racist without evidence, so it seems reasonable you'd have evidence black people have a disproportionate problem with drugs.

So, again: What are the numbers Dave?

 

[Gold]

That's your angle, you do the spadework.

DaveP

I hope you don't know that spade is a derogatory name for African Americans.

 

[DaveP]

I hope you don't know that spade is a derogatory name for African Americans.

Well I hadn't thought of it that way, but no pun was intended.

DaveP

 

[mattiasNYC]

https://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/default/files/NSDUH-DetTabs-2016/NSDUH-DetTabs-2016.pdf

 

[mattiasNYC]

Take a brief look at tables

1.29
1.30
1.34
1.35
1.41
1.47

preferably "B", by percentage. Then report back.

 

[DaveP]

Excuse me, but it was your proposition that there was a drug problem that black people had to deal with, not ours. And you previously went out of your way to explain how you wouldn't accuse Trump of being a racist without evidence, so it seems reasonable you'd have evidence black people have a disproportionate problem with drugs.

These are your words and interpretation because you have an agenda.

I never said they had a disproportionate problem, I said there are things they could do to help themselves.

And the reason  I said that is because life is hard enough for black people without making it worse with drugs and gang warfare.

If you are making the point that the criminal justice system is harder on them, I wouldn't disagree.

DaveP

 

[mattiasNYC]

These are your words and interpretation because you have an agenda.

I never said they had a disproportionate problem, I said there are things they could do to help themselves.

And the reason  I said that is because life is hard enough for black people without making it worse with drugs and gang warfare.

If you are making the point that the criminal justice system is harder on them, I wouldn't disagree.

DaveP

So can you explain then why you felt the need to tell black people how to change their lives to overcome essentially institutional racism rather than tell white people how to stop discriminating institutionally?

You probably don't see this "because you have an agenda", but what you're saying is what a million white conservatives are saying.

And the whole "you have an agenda" argument is at best a red herring and at worst both that and incredibly lazy. Come up with something new please.

 

[Tubetec]

I really glad to see many shifting away from the 'benefit of the doubt ' mentality that allowed this utter psycho to get into power .
Isnt it interesting to note that many of the places that earn the badge 'failed state' have been the victims of the most horrendous war crimes by the west , some estimates say 2 million north Koreans died in the war there ,thats bound to leave a legacy of hatred towards the west .

Sure we need to be concerned about Kim Jung detonating a nuke in the pacific, but uptil now only one government on the planet has used nuclear weapons in anger and set the precedent .Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the two most barbaric acts of war the planet has even known ,and why ,not because the Japanese posed a major threat to the US, but because there was a military imperative to know what the short and long term effects of a nuclear strike on a population would be .

Its also really odd that Trump tweets threats, and then thats closely followed up by a statement from the 'White House' that attempts to calm things down again , its looking more and more  like the 'Captain ,I cannot concur' scene from Crimson tide. North Korea could get flattened and possibly hundreds of thousands of people will die ,or top brass in the military will refuse to carry out orders.  Either scenario it will probably be end game for Trump and could  lead to a serious break down of law and order within the US itself. By the way were a little overwhelmed here in Europe with all the refugees coming from Afganistan Iraq Syria Lybia and all the other failed states the West has created , so you might have to tough it out mano a mano for a bit till you get your 'White House' in order.

 

[Gold]

The heroin epidemic in the late 1960's and early 1970's was centered in cities and predominantly affected brown and black people. That was a law enforcement problem that led to the Rockefeller drug laws in New York State. The crack epidemic of the 1980's was also centered in cities and was a law enforcement problem.

The current heroin epidemic is mostly rural and white. This time it's a public health crisis.

 

[DaveP]

So can you explain then why you felt the need to tell black people how to change their lives to overcome essentially institutional racism rather than tell white people how to stop discriminating institutionally?

There you go again,
I didn't say they should do it to overcome institutional racism did I?  I said it so that it did not make their lives worse than they already are.  This is what I mean about your agenda, you like to twist  words around to make a different point you can argue with.

In the end it is pointless debating with you because you can't agree with anyone out of principle because the chip on your shoulder won't let you.  I have a good African friend here in France and he is nothing like you.

White institutional racism obviously exists in America and unfortunately it will only die out as its perpetrators leave this life.  Sadly, these ideas take many generations to die.  The fact that Black people enter the police force and the military is the very best thing  for fighting this racism from within.  Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, Obama, are excellent role models.

The point I actually made (which you ignore) is that Obama was able to rise to the highest position in the US because he was unencumbered by the Hood culture.  In other words that culture holds black people back.  You have made a career for yourself because your background in Sweden allowed you to make progress, it did not funnel you into drugs and crime.

DaveP

 

[mattiasNYC]

the Hood culture.  In other words that culture holds black people back.

You still don't see it, do you???....

 

[mattiasNYC]

The heroin epidemic in the late 1960's and early 1970's was centered in cities and predominantly affected brown and black people. That was a law enforcement problem that led to the Rockefeller drug laws in New York State. The crack epidemic of the 1980's was also centered in cities and was a law enforcement problem.

The current heroin epidemic is mostly rural and white. This time it's a public health crisis.

Yep.

We "party". "They" have a drug problem that the rest of us have an enforcement problem with.

 

[DaveP]

Isnt it interesting to note that many of the places that earn the badge 'failed state' have been the victims of the most horrendous war crimes by the west , some estimates say 2 million north Koreans died in the war there ,thats bound to leave a legacy of hatred towards the west .

Pity they decided to invade the south then on 25 June 1950, just to remind you that it was the UN that intervened.

DaveP

 

[DaveP]

Sure we need to be concerned about Kim Jung detonating a nuke in the pacific, but uptil now only one government on the planet has used nuclear weapons in anger and set the precedent .Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the two most barbaric acts of war the planet has even known ,and why ,not because the Japanese posed a major threat to the US, but because there was a military imperative to know what the short and long term effects of a nuclear strike on a population would be

Is that your interpretation, other people think it was to save the lives of 750,000 marines.

Americans wanted  Germany's  surrender in WW1, France and UK just wanted out unfortunately, but who can blame them?  The Armistice that followed just meant that their kids had to finish the job 20 years later.  The same scenario is happening with NK, history repeating itself.

DaveP

 

[mattiasNYC]

Is that your interpretation, other people think it was to save the lives of 750,000 marines.

The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace. The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in the defeat of Japan.

— Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, [79]

The use of [the atomic bombs] at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons ... The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.

— Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy, Chief of Staff to President Truman, 1950, [89]

The atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.

— Major General Curtis LeMay, XXI Bomber Command, September 1945, [90]

The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment ... It was a mistake to ever drop it ... [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it ...

— Fleet Admiral William Halsey Jr., 1964,

 

[Matador]

I think that there are some things that the Black population could do to help themselves
1.    Avoid getting into gangs.
2.  Avoid getting into drugs.
3.  Realising that being a man starts with raising a child, not just the conception.
4.  Going as far as possible with their education, we don't need any more rap artists.
5.  Get out of the car when the police ask you to.

These things apply to whites as well, but it seems that black culture is more susceptible to these problems IMO.
What I saw in Obama was a black man who did not come from the hood, he was just as smart as any white guy, but he did not have the baggage of drugs and crime in his environment to hold him back.  In that, he was a great role model and I hope to see some fruit from his example in later years.

There's a lot to unpack here, but I would suggest that you re-read this post 10 times, and start to think about the underlying assumptions in these statements.

Then read this, as it goes over a lot of the background you reference.

 

[DaveP]

There's a lot to unpack here, but I would suggest that you re-read this post 10 times, and start to think about the underlying assumptions in these statements.

Sorry I don't read that kind of stuff, I have no idea of how true it is and the journalism is poor.  Get me an article from a quality newspaper if you must.

I could have written that about parts of London where the same thing applies.  The only difference is that the gangs do not have the access to guns that you have in the US.  So instead gangs of youths ride into each others territory on mopeds and spray each other with acid drain cleaner causing terrible disfigurement.  This is something they picked up from the Pakistani community who throw acid at girls who refuse to marry who their family tells them too.  What a lovely world we live in now

The first Afro Caribbeans who came to the UK in the 50's and 60's integrated, worked and raised families, it seems to be some of their grandkids who have gone off the rails over here.  Remember, there has been no slavery here.  Jazz, Soul & R&B has always been very popular as has all black music and musicians.

DaveP